Category talk:Ancient Greek determiners

Pronouns or determiners

@Mahagaja, I was looking for a greek translation for the word determiner (el), and, by chance, found this Cat. I do not understand what a determiner exactly is, because i have never seen it for greek; it was completely unknown to me. The προσδιορισμός (el) (prosdiorismós) -adjectival, etc- is not a PoS for Greek. I believe that all these words in here are Category:Ancient Greek pronouns (as in traditional grammars). Perhaps, for English readers, this Cat should say: if you are looking For determiners, see Cat.Anc.Gr.articles and Cat.Anc.Gr.pronouns.
Is it not true, that only some, but not all, languages have 'determiners' as a PartOfSpeech? Is it your opinion that all these words should have 'Determiner' as their PoS title? Thank you! ΔΕ ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ I 23:15, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

@Sarri.greek: I don't know whether all languages in the world have determiners, but Ancient Greek does. If you're not familiar with the term, it's probably because it was only in the 20th century that linguists realized they needed a word for a part of speech whose meaning is similar to a pronoun but that inflects like an adjective and modifies a noun like an adjective. See Determiner for more. Articles are a specific kind of determiner, but not all determiners are articles. It's true that in Ancient Greek, most determiners can be used without a noun (which means they're behaving like pronouns), but that's no different than adjectives being used as nouns. For example, you can say οὗτος ἄνθρωπος (“this person”) or just οὗτος (“this (guy)”), the same way you can say ἀγαθὸς ἄνθρωπος (“a good person”) or just ἀγαθός (“a good (guy)”). —Mahāgaja · talk 10:09, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

I see, thank you @Mahagaja. But PartOfSpeech for us, is the grammatical recognition, not interpretations of syntactic roles. We are taught such things in the lesson of Syntax, not Grammar. Because of tradition, I dislike modern titles for PoS that stand for 2 thousand years. We even do not have a word for it. It is made up recently (προσδιοριστής (el) (prosdioristís)), and is mentioned in essays and research. But thanks for explainging. ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ I 10:42, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Yes, ok, I read some texts, and i see (in English), many times ... functions both as pronoun and determiner, ...used both as pronoun and determiner etc. Something similar is the case of nouns like Ἑλληνίς. We mark PoS as noun, but say: in adectival function with ellipsis of... as an 1gender 1suffix adjective (I do not know the English terms: μονογενές μονοκατάληκτο επίθετο). Most modern proper noun ethnonymics, demonyms, are also functioning as nouns in 'epithetic function'. I keep forgetting that PoS for en.wikt is about meaning, whereas at el.wikt we use it only for typology. ‑‑Sarri.greek ^♫ I 12:14, 27 November 2022 (UTC)