Reconstruction talk:Proto-Japonic/y

"*r" alternative unlikely

Vovin's theories about *wasay are interesting, but problematic.

He based this on Old Korean 菩薩 (reconstructed phonetically by Vovin as /pasʌr/) that he proposes was borrowed from Japonic. See Old Korean on Wikipedia.Wikipedia That is reconstructed to roughly 668–935, too late for Proto-Japonic anything -- this is already Old Japanese. And by this point in the historical record, Koreanic terms ending in -r correspond to Old Japanese terms ending in -si, -ti, -tu -- but decidedly not -ru, let alone -r. See also Reconstruction_talk:Proto-Japonic/wasay.

Aside from Vovin's discussion of *wasay, is anyone else proposing final -r? And are they providing any explanation for this? ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 21:00, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Many derivatives incorrectly included

Important point: The potential fusion with a final -i phoneme is only a relevant theory for those Japanese words that exhibit 露出・被覆 vowel alternation.

Many of the deriveds currently listed (2023-02-01) have no attested 被覆 form with the unfronted / more-open vowels a, o, u on the end. Terms with only the fronted / closed vowels e, i include 根 (ne, no attested *na- compounding form), its derivative 羽 (hane, no attested *hana- compounding form), 毛 (ke, no attested *ka- compounding form), 百足 (mukade, no attested *mukada- compounding form; for that matter, I cannot find this anywhere in the ONCOJ corpus, and theories of derivation often include a reduction from 百 (momo, “many”), so reconstructing this as Proto mukantay seems premature), 腕 (ude, no attested *uda- compounding form; also not found in ONCOJ and not attested until 934), 闇 (yami, no attested *yamu- combining form; this is likely a deverbal noun cognate with verb yamu, "to stop; to quit; to get ill; to be stressed or depressed"), 杉 (sugi, no attested *sugu- combining form; this is likely cognate with verb / adjective / adverb sugu, "exceed; go through; straight"), etc. etc.

@Chuterix, could you please pare down the list of deriveds to just those with attested 露出・被覆 forms? ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 21:30, 1 February 2023 (UTC)