Reconstruction talk:Proto-Slavic/dobrъ dьnь

Clarification regarding Bulgarian descendants

The literary Bulgarian descendant of this Proto-Slavic greeting is "добър ден" IPA^(key): [ˈdɔbɐr ˈdɛn], preserving an archaic stress for "добър" which is also found in "добър вечер" IPA^(key): [ˈdɔbɐr ˈvɛt͡ʃɛr] (good evening). I've tried to correct and abridge the other (rare, dialectal) variants provided, but I've been unsuccessful due to disruptive edits by non-native speakers. Here's the relevant information.

• "дън до́бър" is incorrect. The attested form is "до́бър дън", from the Tran dialect of Bulgarian.
• "до́барден" is a homophone of the standard Bulgarian greeting, and a near-homograph of Macedonian добар ден (dobar den), putting into question the motivation of those who re-added it after I removed it. It's not attested in the Bulgarian Etymological Dictionary or the Dictionary of the Bulgarian Language, both published by the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences.

References

Chernorizets (talk) 01:30, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

You can always open source used to create that page if u want to find primary sources. :) Sławobóg (talk) 13:30, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

@Sławobóg I'm not sure if you're implying that the Bulgarian Etymological Dictionary is not the authoritative source for Bulgarian. If you are, well... I don't know what to tell you :-) Chernorizets (talk) 18:58, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

You probably don't realize that national etymological dictionaries don't cover all dialectal words. Sławobóg (talk) 19:11, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Българска диалектология. Проучвания и материали vol. 6 came out in 1971 (just like BER vol. 1), so probably thats the reason BER doesn't mention these forms (I assume BDial. has them, and not the other sources). Sławobóg (talk) 19:43, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

@Sławobóg I do realize this, and I have dialectal dictionaries for Bulgarian as well. However, this doesn't change my analysis of the two included dialectal forms here - the first one is an incorrect metathesis, and the second one is a homophone of the standard Bulgarian version. The only way it wouldn't be a homophone is if the unstressed "a" in "до́барден" doesn't get reduced as in the standard language, which would actually make it a Macedonian dialect. Bulgarian dialectologists do take the view that Macedonian dialects are Bulgarian, but I thought we didn't do that on Wiktionary.

We don't need to include every dialectal version of a word on a reconstruction page. E.g. in Bulgarian dialects, the version "дън" of "ден" could be pronounced with palatalized initial or final consonants depending on region, e.g. дьън or even дьънь. Yet we don't list all those additional versions, and for a good reason.

By disregarding input from educated native speakers - including on the way politics may have permeated the scientific discourse - you gain nothing, but you stand to lose accuracy and context. Chernorizets (talk) 20:18, 15 August 2023 (UTC)