Talk:ցիրդ
Cognate to Turkic and Mongolic[edit]
This looks like a backwards form of Turkic words for the juniper Turkish ardıç etc., see Sevortjan, E. V. (1974) “ардыч”, in Etimologičeskij slovarʹ tjurkskix jazykov [Etymological Dictionary of Turkic Languages] (in Russian), volume I, Moscow: Nauka, pages 173–174, differently Turkmen arça, Tatar arça, Kazakh арша (arşa) etc., also Mongolian арц (arc), Sevortjan, E. V. (1974) “арча”, in Etimologičeskij slovarʹ tjurkskix jazykov [Etymological Dictionary of Turkic Languages] (in Russian), volume I, Moscow: Nauka, pages 182–182. Much more similar than that Sanskrit. There is probably nothing in the Semitic direction, I have worked through the terms for juniper, savin, cypress (and spruce) already. @Vahagn Petrosyan Fay Freak (talk) 13:59, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
- @Fay Freak: thanks for looking up. The Turkic probably is not connected; the Armenian word is very old. The Akkadian I just added is a good formal fit, with the same sound correspondence as in ցեց (cʻecʻ), but its identification with "olive" spoils everything. I notice that "savin oil" also exists and was formerly used in medicine. --Vahag (talk) 16:09, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
Cedrus[edit]
@Vahagn Petrosyan: Even better: Apparently one has confused κέδρος and κέρδος. Fay Freak (talk) 09:59, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
- @Fay Freak: what do you mean? Vahag (talk) 13:27, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
- @Vahagn Petrosyan: It may be a metathetical form in Greek of your area back then, or the same source underlies this word as the Greek (but not Semitic as suggested on the Greek, for the emphatic would not be palatalized and emphatic plosive plus liquid plus emphatic plosive makes the metathetic form avoided as a root construction constraint). Why has no one compared this yet? Fay Freak (talk) 13:47, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
- @Fay Freak: interesting, especially since the Armenian has been alternatively identified with the Juniperus oxycedrus. A borrowing from Greek is excluded. I believe it is more promising trying to connect ցիրդ (cʻird), κέδρος (kédros), possibly also सिध्रक (sidhraka), as inheritances from the PIE. The Armenian could derive from *(s)ḱidʰ-r- or *(s)kidʰ-r-. I will look into this more closely in a few weeks. Vahag (talk) 12:37, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
- @Vahagn Petrosyan: It may be a metathetical form in Greek of your area back then, or the same source underlies this word as the Greek (but not Semitic as suggested on the Greek, for the emphatic would not be palatalized and emphatic plosive plus liquid plus emphatic plosive makes the metathetic form avoided as a root construction constraint). Why has no one compared this yet? Fay Freak (talk) 13:47, 21 December 2022 (UTC)