Talk:هذه

The IP is right, the last vowel is long. Palaestrator verborum (loquier) 02:26, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

@Palaestrator verborum: OK, do you have a source for it? I don't think we have a precedent where a short vowel is pronounced long at Wiktionary, the reverse is common though. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:33, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

@Atitarev: For example, Arne A. Ambros: Einführung in die moderne arabische Schriftsprache. 2nd edition, Hueber Verlag, München 1984, p. 50. He writes very explicitly that there is a defective writing and “Beide Langvokale bleiben unbezeichnet!”.

On this occasion I point out that that rule in Wiktionary:About Arabic The third-person masculine singular object pronoun is always written -hu/-hi with a short vowel (Hans Wehr writes -hū/-hī following a short vowel, -hu/-hi following a long vowel) is only there for automatism-friendliness. Actually this what Hans Wehr does (and what Arne Ambros does too) correctly reflects the pronunciation: The 3rd person sg. m. personal suffix is pronounced long when following a short vowel.

But right now I do not succeed in setting the transcription in هٰذَا (hāḏā) with the parameter ftr= which is documented in {{ar-decl-adj}}, it gives me a weird error message. Palaestrator verborum (loquier) 02:45, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. I have reverted my edit. IP failed to explained why they added and then reverted my edit and it's impossible to follow anonymous edits. Pls try WT:GP, maybe someone will help with your woes. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:52, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

@Atitarev: Wolfdietrich Fischer writes in § 7 Anm. 4 of his Grammatik des klassischen Arabisch:

“Auslautendes -ī wird in ذِهِ ḏihī, هٰذِهِ hāḏihī, تِهِ tihī, هَاتِهِ hātihī ‘diese’ (f.) nicht geschrieben. Diese Schreibweise findet sich im Koran oft auch bei anderen Wörtern: رَبِّ rabbī ‘mein Herr’, صَالِ ṣālī ‘röstend’ u. a. m.; sie kommt in der Poesie häufig am Versende, wo alle Vokale lang gewertet werden, vor (56c).”

He writes some other things you could like to read in that paragraph. And in § 274 he writes that هٰذِي is the original fem. sg of هٰذَا‏ displaced by هٰذِهِ and you should probably read the list of documented forms in § 274–275 (lol, my English syntax becomes Arabic).

I don’t know why hāḏihī is not listed since yore as only transcription of هٰذِهِ. It appears to me that the pronunciation added by the IP could arguably be listed as the only one and the others are sub-standard. Palaestrator verborum (loquier) 03:23, 12 November 2017 (UTC)