Talk:何曜日
Latest comment: 4 years ago by Metaknowledge in topic RFV discussion: August 2018–January 2020
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Not in the two online dictionaries; will see if any NDL books attest this. ～ POKéTalker（═◉═） 01:11, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
- It looks to me like SOP as 何 (nan, “what”, combining form) + 曜日 (yōbi, “day of the week”).
- I see from the entry history that Shinji created the entry. Shinji, can you make a case for this being a lexical term and not just a sum of its parts? ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 21:07, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
- So when does 何 take its combining form? 83.216.81.134 21:44, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
- Interrogative prefix 何 (nan-, “what number”) replaces only numerals. Compare 何人 (nannin, “how many people”) and 何人 (nanijin, “what nationality”), or 何色 (nanshoku, “how many colors”) and 何色 (naniiro, “what color”). 何曜日 (nan'yōbi, “which day of week”) is the only exception where the prefix doesn’t replace a numeral, probably created by analogy with 何月 (nangatsu, “which month”) and 何日 (nannichi, “which day”). The grammatically regular form would be なにようび just like 何用 (naniyō, “for what purpose”) and 何用品 (naniyōhin, “what product category”). なんようび is therefore a lexicalized term one has to memorize. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 22:46, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
- Should that be RFD, rather than RFV? It's definitely citable.
- Shinji, do 何月 (nangatsu, “which month”) and 何日 (nannichi, “which day”) merit an entry? Are the words?
- FWIW, compare with the Chinese 星期幾／星期几 (xīngqījǐ, “which day of the week (question)”), formed by 星期 (xīngqī, “week”) and 幾／几 (jǐ, “what, which (of number)”). --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 23:01, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
- 何月 (nangatsu, “which month”) and 何日 (nannichi, “which day”) are clearly words, but some might say they are sums of parts because they are regular. Note that their literal translations are “what number-th month” and “what number-th day” and you can use 何月 (nangatsu) only for modern months. Imagine these dialogs:
- 昔の如月は今の何月?
2月だよ。- Mukashi no kisaragi wa ima no nangatsu?
Nigatsu da yo. - Which (what number-th) month of today corresponds the ancient kisaragi?
February (2nd month).
- Mukashi no kisaragi wa ima no nangatsu?
- 今の2月は昔の何月?
昔は数字じゃないよ、名前だよ。- Ima no nigatsu wa mukashi no nangatsu?
Mukashi wa sūji ja nai yo, namae da yo. - Which (what number-th) ancient month corresponds today’s February (2nd month)?
In ancient times they didn’t use numbers, they used names.
- Ima no nigatsu wa mukashi no nangatsu?
- 昔の如月は今の何月?
- As for Chinese, 星期幾／星期几 (xīngqījǐ) seems regular because they say 星期一 (xīngqīyī), 星期二 (xīngqī'èr), etc. but it merits an entry. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 23:30, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
- @TAKASUGI_Shinji: Thanks. You may have noticed, I went ahead and created 何月 (nangatsu) and 何日 (nannichi).
- As for 星期幾／星期几 (xīngqījǐ), it wasn't a question, I used it as an example. To me, this question word seems quite irregular. It's asking about days of the week, not week numbers, following the pattern for making 6 out of 7 days of the week. However, you can't form the same question words with 禮拜／礼拜 (lǐbài) or 週／周 (zhōu), which are used to make days of the week. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 10:25, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- 何月 (nangatsu, “which month”) and 何日 (nannichi, “which day”) are clearly words, but some might say they are sums of parts because they are regular. Note that their literal translations are “what number-th month” and “what number-th day” and you can use 何月 (nangatsu) only for modern months. Imagine these dialogs:
- Interrogative prefix 何 (nan-, “what number”) replaces only numerals. Compare 何人 (nannin, “how many people”) and 何人 (nanijin, “what nationality”), or 何色 (nanshoku, “how many colors”) and 何色 (naniiro, “what color”). 何曜日 (nan'yōbi, “which day of week”) is the only exception where the prefix doesn’t replace a numeral, probably created by analogy with 何月 (nangatsu, “which month”) and 何日 (nannichi, “which day”). The grammatically regular form would be なにようび just like 何用 (naniyō, “for what purpose”) and 何用品 (naniyōhin, “what product category”). なんようび is therefore a lexicalized term one has to memorize. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 22:46, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
- FWIW, 何 (nan) does appear in cases where followed by a particle (何と, 何で, etc.), and in a few other set phrases where the 何 is not just a stand-in for a number: 何家 (nanke, “some family or other”), 何時 (nandoki, “what time”), 何通り (nantōri, “some way or other; various ways”), 何等 (nanra, “whatever, any”). ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │Tala við mig 15:12, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
- 何通り (nantōri) is a regular combination of the interrogative numeral prefix 何 (nan-, “what number”) and the counter 通り (tōri, “kind”): “how many kinds”. — TAKASUGI Shinji (talk) 13:51, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
- So when does 何 take its combining form? 83.216.81.134 21:44, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
- RFV-kept. This was the wrong venue to begin with, but the discussion seems to have morphed into a normal RFD discussion, with no consensus that it is SOP. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 04:15, 9 January 2020 (UTC)