Talk:bạn

“I”?

@Fumiko Take, PhanAnh123: I think this can also mean “I”, for example in:

Bạn chẳng biết gì về nó hết. Thế bạn này biết không?

I don't know anything about it. So do you?

Can you please confirm by any chance? What is this usage ― colloquial, dialectal, non-intimate, or ...?

By the way, there is a yet untranslated quotation on the entry mình (from Tố Hữu's “Việt Bắc”) that illustrates the nuances of that word quite well (IMO). I know it's a poem... but it would be fantastic if the quote could be translated or discussed. Wyang (talk) 13:23, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

I couldn't think of a context where bạn could be "I", so, nope, bạn could never mean "I".PhanAnh123 (talk) 13:30, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

@PhanAnh123, Fumiko Take: It gets more interesting... I got a bit of extra information from a friend:

This was originally used in central cities, but in the past few years it has spread because some authors use it to talk about themselves in their blogs/Facebook. It is considered as very confusing and somewhat childish. It's so ridiculously popular in Buon Ma Thuot city. Another example is: Cho bạn mượn vở (“Lend me the notebook.”) which had me confused when I first heard it.

Any clue what source and other dialects this could be? Could it be influenced by the Vietnamese variety spoken by ethnic minorities? Wyang (talk) 14:33, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

@Wyang Are you sure your friend isn't trolling you with that piece of information? Are you in Buon Ma Thuot? And I thought the joke about people in the Central Highlands commute on elephant back was ridiculous enough. Is there any specific reference to that use on social media or forums so that I can go check? ばかFumiko￥^talk 15:16, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

@Fumiko Take: That my friend isn't trolling is something I can be quite sure about... I am not (and was not) in Buon Ma Thuot. A second, unrelated friend from Buon Ma Thuot also confirmed this usage, as well that they have not been commuting on elephant back for years now (笑). It doesn't seem strictly dialectal to me though, to be honest.

This kind of use treats bạn as relative, and in cho bạn mượn vở, the original meaning is “let your friend (me) borrow the notebook”. A similar example is: “Cho bạn ăn một miếng đi”, which, when said to a friend, means “let me have a bite of this”; but when said to your child, would mean “let your friend have a bite”. But the phenomenon seems more common and generalised in certain registers and dialects. Let me get back to you with more information on this soon. Wyang (talk) 02:16, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

@Fumiko Take, PhanAnh123: Examples of bạn used to mean “I” can be found in the article “Nhớ Bèo Mây” written by Nguyễn Ngọc Tư. It becomes obvious that all the bạn in that article are “I” after reading to the end. This usage of bạn is featured a lot in her writings. Some other writers also write in this way, for example Nguyễn Thiên Ngân, Trang Hạ, Phương Rong (in her early works; recently she writes subjectlessly) ... Wyang (talk) 13:37, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Weird, guess I'm pretty out of touch with the common teen parlance nowadays. Judging from the quotes you've given, maybe it's just a generic "you" adopted from English that could be used as "I". I'm not entirely sure though. ばかFumiko￥^talk 14:33, 9 March 2018 (UTC)