Talk:batas

Tagalog etymology

@Ysrael214 Any idea about etymology? I'm convinced this is not an older term, but a 20th-century coinage that gained wide usage, a back-formation from the older Cebuano term that means "etiquette" (by Daluz?). If the Tagalog would have been inherited (as according to the ACD), it would have been *batis. A borrowing from Malay is possible, but the evidence from old Spanish-era and early-20th-century dictionaries (Vocabulario, Serrano Laktaw, Nigg) doesn't reflect that ("law" then translates to "utos") and I can't find "batas" in any of them, which makes Cebuano derivation convincing. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 05:23, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

@TagaSanPedroAko Not an early term, not found in the Vocabulario 1613. Although it may be borrowed around late 1700s to 1800s. Entry exists in Vocabulario 1860 (the supplement part added to the 1754 entries) meaning "to say an order or mandate". Too late to be a Malay borrowing. Early dictionaries use "kautusan", "katuwiran" or even "ley" for law (ex. Serrano Laktaw, Calderon, Nigg). Due to the similarity, this word seems to come from Visayas (unsure if Cebuano but from Visayas)

I have to disagree that Daluz coined the term though as it seems that, besides the 1860 entry, batas is being used for law even before his dictionary.

Examples:

1. https://books.google.com.ph/books?id=QMzfAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA306&dq=%22batas%22+cautusan&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjpy4GQ69D9AhWGrlYBHfCqC_QQ6AF6BAgJEAI#v=onepage&q=%22batas%22%20cautusan&f=false
2. https://books.google.com.ph/books?id=k3-SZD3vLgIC&pg=PA33&dq=%22batas%22+tagalog&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjk5p_h5dD9AhXHmVYBHRj2BvQQ6AF6BAgDEAI#v=onepage&q=%22batas%22%20tagalog&f=false
3. https://books.google.com.ph/books?id=_1fq-z1YaPkC&pg=PA70&dq=ley+%22batas%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjC1paP39D9AhXft1YBHYNpDfQQ6AF6BAgHEAI#v=onepage&q=%22batas%22&f=false
4. https://books.google.com.ph/books?id=iyVCAQAAMAAJ&pg=PP17&dq=ang+batas&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjFitab5ND9AhUkslYBHZH4APQ4ChDoAXoECAMQAg#v=onepage&q=batas&f=false
5. https://books.google.com.ph/books?id=d86YEgFmWdQC&pg=PP4&dq=tagalog+ang+%22batas%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjdpsOm5dD9AhVUqVYBHTBzAvQQ6AF6BAgFEAI#v=onepage&q=batas&f=false
6. https://books.google.com.ph/books?id=r8rAmovXGFsC&pg=PP107&dq=%22batas%22+tagalog&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjk5p_h5dD9AhXHmVYBHRj2BvQQ6AF6BAgHEAI#v=onepage&q=%22batas%22%20tagalog&f=false

Ysrael214 (talk) 07:07, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Maybe I have overlooked the supplement to the 1860 Vocabulario, but yes, it's most likely borrowed from a Visayan source by back-formation, interpreting the -an as a prefix as against an integral part of the word. If not Cebuano, it's either Hiligaynon or Karay-a. "Batasan" with the meaning "etiquette" is so far spread across Visayan languages.

TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 08:20, 10 March 2023 (UTC)