Talk:dominium

RFV discussion: November 2022–February 2023

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dominium

Rfv-sense: Apparently a supposed/proposed taxonomic rank. The proposals would seem to be in the nature of mentions. The proposals are also diverse as to the composition of possible dominiums/dominia and, in any event, don't seem to correspond to our definition. DCDuring (talk) 21:18, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

It doesn't seem to be a very popular word amongst L1 English-speakers. There are a number of domains proposed in https://www.zin.ru/journals/protistology/num7_4/luketa_protistology_7-4.pdf, such as the vaguely familiar "Dominium Bacteriobiota", "Dominium Archaebiota", and "Dominium Eukaryobiota". Are these section headings English or Latin? They have to support the word in one language or the other, don't they? There are also two domains of non-living things - Prionobiota (as in the vectors of kuru) and Virusobiota. --RichardW57 (talk) 01:56, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

There's no "supposed/proposed" about it. It's the Latin word for the taxonomic rank more widely known as domain, for which one also finds the less well-known synonym dominion. The question is simply whether the Latin word has been adopted into English as a synonym, or is always code-switching into Latin when it occurs in an English context. --RichardW57 (talk) 02:24, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Our entry for dominion currently says it's a synonym for the lower rank of kingdom, but it looks like you're right based on the Wikipedia page at Domain (biology)#Terminology.

On the language question, since the rank of domain was apparently introduced in the 1970s it's near-impossible that there are actual Latin texts floating around using it in this sense, so I would consider it English/Translingual/etc as appropriate rather than Latin. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 14:31, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Only 2 more cites needed. So far the only cite has dominium as the plural. See WT:Tea Room#dominium: should it have a plural?. DCDuring (talk) 16:54, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Of course it should have a plural! Perhaps the authors' Latin is worse than their English; the journal should be embarrassed by the quality of the English. Even the title of the paper is misspelt! --RichardW57 (talk) 23:05, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

I've found two examples with the plural 'dominia', but I'm not sure if they're durable. There's the Ph.D. thesis of Sara Carillo, http://www.fedoa.unina.it/9325/1/Tesi%20Sara%20Carillo.pdf, which I can't date, and a list of abstracts for Extremophiles 2004 at https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/835113. I think I've found the paper corresponding to the abstract, but the word has been edited out!

I'm beginning to think that the sense, for English, should be labelled as 'non-native'. I'm finding usage by Spanish and Italian-speakers writing in English. The Spanish Royal Academy dictionary gives the taxonomic sense for dominio. As we already have an unqualified gloss "domain" for the Spanish word, do we need to document it any better (other than by possibly adding a quotation)? I've added the 'domain' sense and one supporting quotation to Italian dominio. --RichardW57 (talk) 00:16, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

I was hoping to get advice on admissibility as evidence for CFI before devoting time and effort to turning these into quotations. Please allow me until 14 February 2023 to enter them before closing this RfV for lack of supporting quotations. --RichardW57m (talk) 10:30, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

Keep. I have now added these two and we now have three quotations for the taxonomic meaning. --RichardW57 (talk) 23:29, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

There's inadmissible stuff floating around. I found the word being used on Latin Wikipedia, and elsewhere I found the almost correct, "Sunt tria dominia vitae; Archaeam, Bacteria, Eucarya".

On p42 of http://www.singem.it/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/GASBARRINI.pdf, I found:

DOMINIUM	EUKARIOTA
REGNUM	FUNGI
PHYLUM	ASCOMICOTA
CLASSE	EUROTIOMICETES
ORDO	EUROTIALES
FAMILIA	TRICHOCOMACEAE
SPECIES	PENICILLIUM
SUBSPECIES	PENICILLIUM NOTATUM (Chrysogenum)

Is that bad English or bad Latin? (It's been Italianised with 'y' replaced by 'i' in the names of the domain, phylum and class, and 'classe' is wrong for both Latin and English.)

Back to my question. Are the section headings in the paper in Protistology translingual or English then? --RichardW57 (talk) 23:44, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I should have qualified "durably archived Latin texts". classe is Italian—not sure much can be made of that table. The terms in the Protistology paper would be Translingual in the same way stuff like Animalia is (if they were actually adopted by anyone else, which it doesn't seem like they have been). But the term's appearances also seem to essentially be mentions—the various "Dominium X" sections are definitions. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 19:38, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

In "Dominium X", "X" is a (proto-)mention, but "Dominium" is a use. It tells the reader what the rank of the taxon being renamed is. The author is implementing a naming scheme put forward elsewhere. --RichardW57 (talk) 22:25, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

RFV Passed. Ioaxxere (talk) 21:25, 21 February 2023 (UTC)