Talk:drei

i don't get this. is this a translation 'japanese transliteration' -> 'japanese' ? anyway, if so, there should be something like ===Noun===.

Removed. The Japanese word for slave is pronounced doréi, not drei. —Stephen 13:48, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Declension

The dative from drei ist dreien, the genitive dreier. This information should be provided in the article. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 16:44, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

"The dative case is uninflected in adjectival use: Ich sprach mit drei Zeugen. – “I spoke with three witnesses.” When used as a noun, it may take the form dreien: Ich sprach mit dreien. – “I spoke with three.” This rule is usually observed in formal standard German; but when a specification in the genitive case (or with von) is following, the bare form is more common: Ich sprach mit drei der Zeugen. – “I spoke with three of the witnesses.” In colloquial German, dreien is never obligatory."
That's incomplete/wrong:

• In older texts it's also "nach dreien Tagen" &c.
• There are forms like "es gehört dreien Schwestern" or "die ausübende Gewalt [wurde] dreien Männern, [... (names)], übertragen"

"The genitive case takes the form dreier if no article or pronoun is preceding" etc. That's incomplete too.

• With prepositions both forms exists, e.g. "mittels drei Substantive[n]" and "mittels dreier Substantive" (Substantive is a placeholder for a noun substantive in plural, and [n] indicates a possible additional colloquial dative). Actuall examples from some books: "mittels drei Punkten" (dative, 21th century) -- "mittels drei blutiger Hefte" (genitive, 19th century) -- "mittels dreier Adjektive" (genitive, 20th century).

Also:

• There should a note on substantivations. Is it for example "Er schlug die drei" or "Er schlug die Drei", "Er gab dreien etwas Brot" or "Er gab Dreien etwas Brot"? Actually both forms should appear (resp. at least for some cases do appear). There could be 3 ways of dealing with it: 1. Always writing etc. small as it is a numeral/number (used substantivally) and not a "pure/real" substantive. 2. Always writting it with a capital letter when used substantivally as it's like a substantive. 3. Allowing resp. using both forms, maybe depening on the author (some using way 1, some way 2) or maybe depening on the context like "Er gab Dreien etwas Brot." but "Er sah vier Menschen und dreien [i.e.: dreien dieser Menschen] gab er etwas Brot."

-01:46, 8 April 2015 (UTC) & 11:38, 11 April 2015 (UTC)

After looking in several grammar books &c. there should be the following forms.

Using the following abbreviations: dat.=dative, gen.=genitive, art.=article, pron.=pronoun (pron.ad.=adjectival pronoun; pron.poss.adj.=adjectival possessive pronoun (like mein and dein)), praep.=preposition, num.=number/numeral, adj.=adjective, subst.=substantive, []=optional word; an abbreviation written with a capital letter at the beginning stands for a word written with a capital letter (e.g. it's always "Subst.").

Forms of declensions:

Casus	Pl.
	I.	II.	III.	IV.	V.
Nom.	-	-[e]	-	-[e]	-
Gen.	-	-	-er	-er	-er
Dat.	-	-en	-en	-en	-
Acc.	-	-[e]	-	-[e]	-

• I.: art./pron.adj. num. [adj.] Subst.
• II.: art. num. (also: art. Num.)
• III.: num. [pron.poss.adj.] [adj.] Subst.; dated also: diese/dieser/diesen num. (maybe even: art./pron.adj. num.)
• IV.: num. (also: Num.); dated also: pron.adj. num. Subst. (maybe even: art./pron.adj. num. [adj.] Subst.)
• V., also (chiefly) dated I. or III.: praep. num. Subst.

Notes:

• art./pron.adj. num. [adj.] Subst. -- here art./pron. indicates the case, so the number/numeral doesn't need to indicate it
• num. [pron.poss.adj.] [adj.] Subst.; num. (also: Num.) -- here number/numeral is needed to indicate the case
• art. num. (also: art. Num.) -- in dat. with -en, but gen. just -; technically "den drei" already indicates the case, but maybe it sounds bad and thus is avoided
• praep. num. Subst. -- earlier both forms (I. and III.) existed, but it seems to have become dat. just - and (rare) gen. with -er (i.e. V.).
  In "modern" usage it's sometimes "genitive pronoun (like mittels, vermöge, kraft) + dreien + Subst. in dative", but at least traditionally (pre-reformed before 1996) that should be an error (a genitive pronoun requires a substantive in the genitive).
• numbers/numerals with -e (e.g. zweie, dreie) are used in nom. and acc. when no substantive is following the number/numeral, though the -e can be dropped.
  • One might guess that the -e forms are only used when both the substantive and article are missing, but forms like "die dreie/Dreie" do exists (even from 2012).
  • It could be that in older texts the forms with -e were also used elsewhere, like "die dreie Männer gingen", but I haven't found any example like that, so I'd guess that it didn't exists.
  • Duden claims that (accourding to the "Rechtschreibreformreformreformreform" (from 2010/2011)) only the forms without -e are correct and the forms with -e are non-standard and only used dialectal. But: The forms with -e are still in use (even though it could be "dialectal") and Duden is prescribing anyway.
• Spellings of numerals with a capital letter (like "er gab es den Dreien") might be rarer and seem to be against the "Rechtschreibreformreformreformreform" from 2010/2011, but they are still in use, and maybe they became even more popular because of the reforms (Rechtschreibreform 1996, Rechtschreibreformreform 2004, Rechtschreibreformreform 2006, Rechtschreibreformreformreform 2010/2011 -- the latter is often subsumed under the Reform of 2006), like for example "im allgemeinen" was changed to "im Allgemeinen".

A few actual examples with words:

• er ist Besitzer der drei genannten Güter, er ist Vater dreier Söhne, nach Verlauf dreier Stunden, den drei [fleißigen] Handwerkern, meinen drei [kleinen] Geschwistern habe ich es gesagt, es gehört dreien Schwestern
• es gehört uns dreien, es mit dreien aufnehmen - es mit drei Männern aufnehmen, mit sechsen fahren - mit sechs Pferden fahren
• in/nach/vor drei/dreien Stunden/Tagen/Monaten, mittels/vermöge/kraft drei/dreier Subst., mit acht [Jahren]
• Die Turmuhr schlug vier[e].
• einer/jeder der vier/Vier, die drei sagten

-22:58, 11 April 2015 (UTC)