Talk:gimble

RFV discussion: December 2020

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gimble

The only other dictionary that I can find that lists the term is Merriam-Webster. I tried to find usages, but mostly found mispellings of gimbal (including in the entry of another dictionary!) or the name Gimble. —The Editor's Apprentice (talk) 18:56, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Webster's 2nd International (1930s) has: Dial. "To make a wry face.", but no cites. Nothing relevant in DARE. DCDuring (talk) 22:31, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Wright (English Dialect Dictionary vol. 2 p. 614) has two uses from Lincolnshire and Suffolk. Personally, I am happy with that level of attestation of dialect. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 15:22, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Wright (1900) would seem to be out of copyright, so we could simply copy their cites. DCDuring (talk) 15:47, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

I tracked down original copies of the three works the EDD cited (including a slightly earlier citation of Strickland), only two of which are uses, so we're still one shy. The EDD gives the definition as grimace or grin, and the latter seems to be what the cites mean. - -sche (discuss) 16:34, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

From broader context, where it is used together with gyre, I guess this is meant to be the gimbal sense (or, as one book claims instead, "to make holes like a gimlet") and not grin, although it otherwise seems to make sense as grin: 1950, Fredric Brown, Night of the Jabberwock, page 220: "But the nearest stool was miles away through the brillig, and slithy toves were gimbling at me from the wabe." - -sche (discuss) 16:34, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

I would no more take Lewis Carroll's fanciful use as evidence of anything than I would take seriously a use in Finnegan's Wake. DCDuring (talk) 00:30, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

cited Kiwima (talk) 22:36, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

@Kiwima: Am I correct in understanding that the dialect is being treated like a limitedly documented language? Best. —The Editor's Apprentice (talk) 03:20, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

@The Editor's Apprentice: We include many dialect words, as long as they meet CFI. They do, however, have to be marked as such. Kiwima (talk) 19:29, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

@Kiwima: I agree and encourage the documentation and inclusion of dialectical terms. The thing that led me to ask me previous question was that there are two clear usages, two clear mentions, and one attestation that leans towards being a mention. To me, that doesn't clearly satisfy the "conveying meaning in at least three independent instances" part of the criteria for inclusion and so I thought that you might've been treating the dialect as something like a limitedly documented language. Best. —The Editor's Apprentice (talk) 20:28, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

No, I took the 1897 Gifford quote as a use rather than a mention, using the "jib" example from our inclusion criteria. Kiwima (talk) 22:19, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Got it. I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree. Thanks for humoring my questions. —The Editor's Apprentice (talk) 05:00, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

It's definitely borderline, and if the words within the quotation marks were in a language other than English, I'm pretty sure we'd consider them mentions or code-switching, but I guess the fact that if this were code-switching it'd be switching from English to English makes it more plausible to view it as a "jib" type quotation. Ehhh. - -sche (discuss) 07:58, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

I will say, though, that I think the Brown citation above (in this thread), which appears to be playing with but not(?) exactly reproducing Carroll's words, makes sense if interpreted as using this sense, which means we have, like, two "half citations"... like many of the dialect terms we include, this would benefit from some investigation of whether it's obsolete or still in use among speakers today, though. - -sche (discuss) 08:02, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

I've found a lot more dictionaries that list the term as well as what may be a usage: "The source of this affection [disease] is the frontal sinus; if that be opened with a common gimble, and a feather, introduced into the hole, be withdrawn smeared with matter, we may be certain the disease exists." ([1]). Mentions found include a Swedish-English translation dictionary, a set of "Suffolk Sea Phrases" (which may provide details on the yawn connection, see Etymonline), and "A Dictionary of Obsolete and Provincial English". —The Editor's Apprentice (talk) 22:37, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Nevermind, I've found a third attestation which I feel is very clearly a usage and have added it. With that, I feel good and confident about calling this cited. Many thanks to this Stackexchange answer and the user who made it for finding the usage. —The Editor's Apprentice (talk) 23:13, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

RFV-passed Kiwima (talk) 20:17, 19 December 2020 (UTC)