Talk:go up

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go up

Sense: (transitive, intransitive) To move upwards. "Are you going up the mountain? No, I went up yesterday."

This seems to be the most transparent possible sense, fully captured, together with many other less common, transparent senses by {{&lit|go|up}}. We have other senses that seem much more like real idioms and may be missing other idiomatic senses. DCDuring TALK 14:55, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Fails coordination tests ("We went up, down, north, south.") and measure-term tests ("The balloon went 50 miles up."). DCDuring TALK 15:05, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Kill. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:40, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

• Strong keep: For starters, "went up", "went down", "went north", "went south", "went east" and "went west" are all terms. Purplebackpack89 ^{(Notes Taken) (Locker)} 16:56, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

And here I was thinking I had the slightest idea what the word “term” meant. Delete; it’s go + up, thus already covered by the &lit line. — Ungoliant ^(Falai) 01:54, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

• That's a specious argument. The idiomatic senses of "go up" are not being nominated for deletion, so of course went up etc. will stay as inflected forms of the idiomatic meanings. But the nominated sense is totally redundant with the {{&lit}} sense, so delete. —Angr 17:05, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Recommend we ignore all content from Purplebackpack89 on this page. As you'll see from his talk page and my talk page, all attempts to communicate with him/her have been met with threats and hostility. Mglovesfun (talk) 18:44, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

I don't see why it should be deleted. It's the normal way to make new verb forms - adding adverbs like "in", "out", "off" and the most common meaning of the verb. Similar to how German makes new verb forms using detachable prefixes, e.g. gehen (to go), so - hinauf + gehen = hinaufgehen, "I go up" - "ich gehe hinauf". What's next - go in, go out? The term is defined at Cambridge and other dictionaries with this sense. Keep, of course. BTW, I didn't see anything hostile in Purplebackpack89's post. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:25, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

There is no new meaning with this particular sense. There was new meaning with the others, the one that were not challenged. Your argument shows no awareness of a distinction between the idiomatic (non-SoP) and the idiomatic. Do you think we need an entry for, say, go sideways, for go between, for walk between, for walk under?

Many of the phrasal verb entries include one particular SoP definition among the far less than exhaustive listing of idiomatic senses they include. All of the SoP definitions should be replaced by {{&lit}} and the missing idiomatic senses, many of them from the US, should be added.

[[go up]] now seems reasonably good with the exception of the challenged sense. I had to modify the "increase in value/price" sense because up is used, in a relevant sense that many dictionaries have, with many verbs with respect to measures of price, values, etc. What seems more idiomatic to me is for go up to be used with the subject being not the value, but the thing itself. IOW, I think it is SoP for "the price of bananas to go up" but not SoP for "bananas to go up". DCDuring TALK 00:17, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I don't think that if there is no change of meaning, it should be a reason to remove the sense. Nor the reason that potentially we may have more entries or can figure out what it means based on its parts. The verb "to go up" (in the sense "to ascend", "to rise") is on of the most common English verbs and is defined in most dictionaries. Yes, common verbs and common adverbs commonly form pairs but it's a single word, even if it's a compound word. Removing the most common sense doesn't make any sense (no pun intended). English is a big language, what can you do about it? If you use these criteria for deletion, most phrasal verbs will go. The {{&lit}} is intended to look up individual words, not necessarily to get the meaning of the single verb "go up". --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 00:43, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Delete per nom. - -sche (discuss) 00:38, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Agree, Delete Leasnam (talk) 00:53, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

@Purplebackpack: There are indeed some meanings of go up (“blow one's lines”), go down (“blow one's sex partner (with on)”)}, and go south (“fail”) that are idiomatic (senses given are not the only idiomatic ones) (go north doesn't seem idiomatic to me nor to the lexicographers at the references at OneLook), but those are not the meanings that come through on the coordination test when go up means "move upwards". The sole meaning in the coordination test that comes through is the meaning that also come through on the measure-term test: "They went a mile up, a mile down, a mile east, a mile west, a mile north, and a mile south, ending right were they started." You have to focus on a specific sense for native speaker intuition to work. If that isn't available, you can always check on some corpus to see what the population of authors or speakers finds passes or fails such tests. DCDuring TALK 01:35, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Delete. Transparent as stated. Similar to "wander up (the hill)", "stroll up", "clamber up", etc. Not anything like "wake up", "face up to". Equinox ◑ 09:36, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

"go up" (RISE) - definition in British English Dictionary & Thesaurus - Cambridge Dictionary Online: to move higher, rise, or increase, usex: The average cost of a new house has gone up by five percent to £276,500.

Definition of go up | Collins English Dictionary to move or lead to or as if to a higher place or level; rise; increase usex: "prices are always going up", "the curtain goes up at eight o'clock", "new buildings are going up all around us".

It's a high frequency verb, please keep. There are eight interwiki links, multiple dictionary definitions, solid word translations and English synonyms. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:38, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

You do realize that those examples you gave aren't part of the the nomination, right? Take a minute and actually look at the entry and read the nomination, so you don't waste all of our time debating something that isn't on the table. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:55, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Although I haven't checked the relationship between the 2 and 4. Both sense 2 and 4 are related and are also defined or co-defined in Cambridge and Collins. Cambridge: "to move higher ...", Collins: "to move ... to a higher place ...", synonyms for sense 2 (nominated): to climb, to ascend, to mount. Note some slight differences in translations (just added German) for sense 2 and 4. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 05:35, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

What do you mean by co-defined mean? DCDuring TALK 10:29, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Both senses are defined in one sentence by using "or", e.g. "to move to higher places OR increase", etc. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 10:48, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification.

All of the sense are related to each other because they all derived from meanings of the components, without necessarily being transparent/SoP in that derivation.

That a dictionary like Cambridge or Collins that is an on-line copy (or draft) of a highly selective space-limited print dictionary chooses only to include certain of the SoP meanings of go + up is hardly surprising. Wiktionary attempts to not exclude anything. When it comes to SoP combinations, it is against this inclusionist approach to only include one SoP sense. OTOH, to include all of them would be confusing to the user and require a vast and tedious effort. Wiktionary may have eyes bigger than its stomach in attempting to be all things to all people. The place where this is most obvious is in the conflict between including everything and selecting things that are of the greatest importance to a user, say, an ESL student. I see no principled way of satisfying these conflicting demands. DCDuring TALK 11:40, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

deleted -- Liliana • 11:38, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

up went

What does mean "up go", as "·up went the pancake·. --Diamondland (talk) 12:41, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

It's the same as go up, just with different word order. —CodeCat 12:43, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

The difference in word order is used to bring attention to the word or phrase that's brought to the front. This is mainly used in spoken stories, in poetry, and in writing that's meant to mimic a spoken story-telling style. This is called inversion, and the rules governing it are rather complex. Linguists find out a lot of interesting things about syntactic structure by analyzing them. Chuck Entz (talk) 16:25, 12 May 2013 (UTC)