Talk:léien

2nd person plural

@JohnC5, Kolmiel, BigDom Is the 2nd person plural form correct? It seems a bit odd, I'd expect something like "léit" instead. —CodeCat 21:11, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Both forms are correct. "litt" is the phonetically regular form. (I could explain to you why, if you want that.) But "léit" is also used because it is indeed what one would expect at first glance. But compare also kréien which has only "kritt" in the 2nd person plural. Kolmiel (talk) 21:26, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

I would appreciate an explanation yes. —CodeCat 21:28, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

The phoneme -éi- [əi] continues older (post-MHG) [eː] and [iː], the latter of which is a monophthongisation of MHG -ie-, -üe-. This phoneme [iː] was regularly shortened before dentals (cf. Lidd < MHG liet, midd < MHG müede, etc.). Now since intervocalic -g- has been lost in Luxembourgish, MHG liegen > [liːən], which regularly inflected to [liːt] both in the 3rd p. sg. and the 2nd p. pl. The split between two phonemes only happened when [liːt] was shortened to [lit]. Kolmiel (talk) 21:46, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. So is there any way for the module to predict when this happens? —CodeCat 21:56, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

The 2nd p. pl. has been levelled widely, using the vowel of the other plural forms. That's generally true even for the most irregular of verbs. Kréien is the exception, while fléien, léien, zéien have "flitt, litt, zitt" alongside "fléit, léit, zéit". Otherwise there's only "huet" as a rarer variant of "hutt" in hunn. These are all, I think. Kolmiel (talk) 22:09, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

@Kolmiel Are there any verbs where this happens in the 3rd singular and 2nd plural, but not in the 2nd singular? Or does the 2nd singular count as "dental"? —CodeCat 22:51, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

There are no such verbs. The 2nd and 3rd persons sg. always have the same vowel. In all verbs. — Actually the shortening did not happen before [s] (cf. séiss < MHG süeze), but the forms have been levelled (to "kriss" in kréien, and to "flitts, litts, zitts" in the other three verbs mentioned above). Kolmiel (talk) 23:06, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

@CodeCat: PS: There are two other verbs in this class: bléien ("to blossom") which has the same forms as fléien, léien, zéien. And geschéien ("to happen"), which has "et geschitt" (2nd person forms don't exist). — All other verbs have been regularized completely (e.g. béien > béis, béit, béit; bedréien > bedréis, bedréit, bedréit). Kolmiel (talk) 23:47, 11 July 2016 (UTC)