Talk:off the ground

RFV discussion

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Rfv-sense: Successful. I don't think so. It means having a good start. Also the usage examples show it only as part of get off the ground. DCDuring TALK 23:12, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I suppose one could ask "Is this project off the ground?", though it would be more usual to ask if it had got off the ground. I agree that it doesn't mean successful. Dbfirs 18:02, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

In my experience it has a meaning that is almost "successful", but rather more "started on the path toward eventually becoming successful". It is conceivable that the meaning has evolved because we imagine that getting started toward a goal is tantamount to achieving it, ie, once you've started you don't have to work at it: "well begun is half done" => "well begun is almost done" => "well begun is as good as done". DCDuring TALK 18:29, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

BTW, well begun is nearly done would be attestable, though not in enough use to be a proverb by my lights. DCDuring TALK 17:40, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps one might extend the "start" meaning to "running smoothly", but not as far as successful. I suggest that we amalgamate the two senses shown, deleting "successful". Dbfirs 19:35, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with that sense either, though it seems plausible. DCDuring TALK 19:47, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

It was the impression I got from one or two examples I found, but I'd struggle to quote unambiguous cites, so perhaps we should just stick with the basic meaning and let people read more into the context if they wish. Dbfirs 16:39, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't mean to discourage any extension of the definition. I think our wording should reflect that "we've gotten started" means a bit less than "we've gotten off the ground". DCDuring TALK 17:34, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

... so if we combine the senses to give: "having reached an adequate level of stability or self-sufficiency; having made a good start"? Dbfirs 00:06, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

RFV failed, sense removed, -slash- partly merged into the other sense. (Please take a look.) —Ruakh_TALK 22:47, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

• The metaphor is flight. I wonder whether it predates human aviation. Getting off the ground gets one past the hardest stage, that requiring the greatest rate of effort, but for a short time. Ahead is a climb, which often requires much more total effort. Success could be deemed to come once one has achieved maximum altitude or when one has completed the flight or mission or hunt. I think the phrase remains close to the metaphor, but I haven't checked.

How about "Having gotten a good start; having successfully passed an initial period of high effort or risk of failure."? It's a bit wordy, but […] . DCDuring TALK 00:56, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

"off the ground" in connection with flying is rare before 1875, when it was used by naturalists or bird-hunters. The prevalent pre-flight uses had to do with getting off the ground after falling down or being knocked down or getting (something) off the ground agriculturally. Also perhaps a sense like "getting off the grounds (of the estate)". I don't see any figurative use before 1910, haven't look thereafter. DCDuring TALK 01:18, 30 August 2010 (UTC)