Talk:phobia
Latest comment: 1 year ago by DCDuring in topic Not only fear but also aversion
Not only fear but also aversion[edit]
Currently the definition reads: “1. An irrational, abnormal, or obsessive fear (of something).” I note that “aversion” or “dislike” is included along with “fear” in other trusted dictionaries, e.g. Merriam-Webster (where ‘photophobia’ is an aversion rather than a fear), Britannica, Cambridge, and Houghton Mifflin (dictionary.com). Is there some reason Wiktionary omits this aspect? Also currently there are no citations at all. Would these sources be suitable to cite? – ‘’’.’’’Raven .talk 03:13, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- I think you are onto something. To me the only question is whether there should be two separate definitions or one ambiguous one. It may be that the words formed from the suffix -phobia are more subject to ambiguity than is phobia, ie, as MWOnline has it. DCDuring (talk) 16:23, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- Ultimately, we prefer citations that unambiguously support a each distinct definition to references to other dictionaries, but such references are useful. DCDuring (talk) 16:25, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- For now, I've added a separate sense, with one cite that speaks of “phobia of light” and then says “another common aversion is…” (clearly using phobia for aversion), plus several cites that use it for phobias of people which are more dislikes/aversions than fears. (It might actually make sense to have “dislike/hatred” as its own sense; I’m not sure.) - -sche (discuss) 16:54, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- I find that -phobia is often used in a way that one part of the audience interprets it as meaning fear, another interprets it as dislike, and a final group can't tell. I wonder whether speakers play on this ambiguity intentionally? (More generally, sometimes a precise definition misleads by downplaying an inherent ambiguity of meaning.) DCDuring (talk) 21:00, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- I've noticed the argument (offline and on) that an aversion isn't "really" a phobia because the word 'phobia' derives from Greek φόβος, fear. E.g. xenophobics may say they 'don’t fear foreigners, just hate them, and that's not a phobia.' [Despite a politician's adding accusations of "criminals and rapists" to strengthen the feeling.] To me this appears to be a case of the etymological fallacy, aided by the fact that some dictionaries only list the 'fear' meaning (though, as I noted above, others list both). Shakespeare's Antony and Cleopatra offers one resolution of the two meanings: "In time we hate that which we often fear." As befits a child of the God of War. – .Raven .'talk 21:35, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, the influence of etymology on meaning fades over time. DCDuring (talk) 22:04, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- I've noticed the argument (offline and on) that an aversion isn't "really" a phobia because the word 'phobia' derives from Greek φόβος, fear. E.g. xenophobics may say they 'don’t fear foreigners, just hate them, and that's not a phobia.' [Despite a politician's adding accusations of "criminals and rapists" to strengthen the feeling.] To me this appears to be a case of the etymological fallacy, aided by the fact that some dictionaries only list the 'fear' meaning (though, as I noted above, others list both). Shakespeare's Antony and Cleopatra offers one resolution of the two meanings: "In time we hate that which we often fear." As befits a child of the God of War. – .Raven .'talk 21:35, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- I find that -phobia is often used in a way that one part of the audience interprets it as meaning fear, another interprets it as dislike, and a final group can't tell. I wonder whether speakers play on this ambiguity intentionally? (More generally, sometimes a precise definition misleads by downplaying an inherent ambiguity of meaning.) DCDuring (talk) 21:00, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
- For now, I've added a separate sense, with one cite that speaks of “phobia of light” and then says “another common aversion is…” (clearly using phobia for aversion), plus several cites that use it for phobias of people which are more dislikes/aversions than fears. (It might actually make sense to have “dislike/hatred” as its own sense; I’m not sure.) - -sche (discuss) 16:54, 8 May 2023 (UTC)