Talk:railway line
Latest comment: 9 years ago by -sche in topic RFV discussion: December 2014–March 2015
The following information has failed Wiktionary's verification process (permalink).
Failure to be verified means that insufficient eligible citations of this usage have been found, and the entry therefore does not meet Wiktionary inclusion criteria at the present time. We have archived here the disputed information, the verification discussion, and any documentation gathered so far, pending further evidence.
Do not re-add this information to the article without also submitting proof that it meets Wiktionary's criteria for inclusion.
Sense 1: A rail is a rail, two parallel rails are needed in a railway line. I don't think that monorails are called railway lines either, just in case someone comes up with that argument. Donnanz (talk) 17:43, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- I'm more confused about the other senses. To me, a railway line doesn't necessarily need two or more tracks, nor is there any distinction in meaning between having one track or several. The distinguishing part, for me, is that a railway line connects two or more places together. This is different from a railway track in that the latter generally refers to the physical track, without referring to its end points. —CodeCat 18:20, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- I agree with both of you. A line has to connect two places, if it doesn't (like if it's in a massive warehouse) it's just track. But I think there are two possible meanings, the physical track itself ("leaves on the line") and the route ("a new proposed line between Boston and New York"). Renard Migrant (talk) 18:44, 29 December 2014 (UTC).
- The two terms can be synonymous. A railway track could be just a siding, or a single-track railway line linking several places. I live between two double-track railway lines which carry trains in and out of London Waterloo. Further away there are four-track railway lines in Surrey (Clapham Junction-Woking) and between London Paddington and Slough (and Reading I think). Each four-track railway line has four railway lines or tracks. I thought I explained it reasonably well in sense 3, it's only sense one I'm querying. Donnanz (talk) 19:04, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- To me, if one "pulls up the old railway/railroad tracks", that might mean only removing the rails and possibly any other salvageable components, but normally railway/railroad track would include the ties/sleepers, if any, and track bed, possibly the right of way too. A railway/railroad line necessarily includes track, but is basically a route, as was said above. In addition, in the US, at least in the 19th and most of the 20th centuries, railway/railroad line could also refer to the company that owned a railway line that served a route or the entire system of branches and possibly other "lines", eg, the (Rock Island line (common name of the Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroad and the title of a once-popular song).
- Other dictionaries have the "track-and-roadbed" sense for railway line.
- But what I'd like to know is how the industry survived without terminological clarity. Such confusion is no way to run a railroad[1]. DCDuring TALK 19:44, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- There are wild variations in railway terminology between the US and UK, but I don't think a professional railwayman would call a single rail, even if it's CWR (continuous long welded) a railway line, wherever he is. Maybe the media does, but they're usually only a bunch of amateurs when it comes to railway matters. Donnanz (talk) 21:38, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- English isn't only used by specialists though. You don't need a PhD in physics to use the word 'temperature' for example. I don't see why a single-rail track couldn't be considered a line as long as it is a medium for trains to transport themselves from A to B. What about in Japan? English can be used about places where English isn't habitually spoken. Renard Migrant (talk) 21:41, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- Though looking back that's not what's being disputed, as interesting as the debate is. Renard Migrant (talk) 21:43, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- Often an RfV or RfD draws needed attention to an entry. So it is a good opportunity to do some cleanup. Also, I'm often reminded of possible missing colloquial entries, like no/any/helluva way to run a railroad, in the course of these discussions. If we put the non-RfV content in a different or smaller typeface, it might make clearer what was the main thread and what was peripheral. But do we really have to? DCDuring TALK 21:56, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- I was trying to leave monorails out of this debate, as the rail is (usually) actually a beam. See National Motor Museum Monorail. Donnanz (talk) 22:06, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- I might as well add monorail cat to WT:LOP. Renard Migrant (talk) 22:10, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- The name monorail was correct when it was first invented, but with the evolution of the species has become a semi-misnomer - not a protologism in the sense of that word. Donnanz (talk) 10:15, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
- No, protologism means it isn't used. You're arguing about whether what they currently use is a rail or not. I say it is, because trains are running on it. Renard Migrant (talk) 21:59, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
- A monorail is a means of transport, not a rail. The term has been in existence for a century or so. As I said in the beginning, a rail is a rail, so when does it become a beam? Donnanz (talk) 11:08, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
- No, protologism means it isn't used. You're arguing about whether what they currently use is a rail or not. I say it is, because trains are running on it. Renard Migrant (talk) 21:59, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
- The name monorail was correct when it was first invented, but with the evolution of the species has become a semi-misnomer - not a protologism in the sense of that word. Donnanz (talk) 10:15, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
- I might as well add monorail cat to WT:LOP. Renard Migrant (talk) 22:10, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- I was trying to leave monorails out of this debate, as the rail is (usually) actually a beam. See National Motor Museum Monorail. Donnanz (talk) 22:06, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- Often an RfV or RfD draws needed attention to an entry. So it is a good opportunity to do some cleanup. Also, I'm often reminded of possible missing colloquial entries, like no/any/helluva way to run a railroad, in the course of these discussions. If we put the non-RfV content in a different or smaller typeface, it might make clearer what was the main thread and what was peripheral. But do we really have to? DCDuring TALK 21:56, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- Though looking back that's not what's being disputed, as interesting as the debate is. Renard Migrant (talk) 21:43, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- English isn't only used by specialists though. You don't need a PhD in physics to use the word 'temperature' for example. I don't see why a single-rail track couldn't be considered a line as long as it is a medium for trains to transport themselves from A to B. What about in Japan? English can be used about places where English isn't habitually spoken. Renard Migrant (talk) 21:41, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- There are wild variations in railway terminology between the US and UK, but I don't think a professional railwayman would call a single rail, even if it's CWR (continuous long welded) a railway line, wherever he is. Maybe the media does, but they're usually only a bunch of amateurs when it comes to railway matters. Donnanz (talk) 21:38, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- The two terms can be synonymous. A railway track could be just a siding, or a single-track railway line linking several places. I live between two double-track railway lines which carry trains in and out of London Waterloo. Further away there are four-track railway lines in Surrey (Clapham Junction-Woking) and between London Paddington and Slough (and Reading I think). Each four-track railway line has four railway lines or tracks. I thought I explained it reasonably well in sense 3, it's only sense one I'm querying. Donnanz (talk) 19:04, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
- I agree with both of you. A line has to connect two places, if it doesn't (like if it's in a massive warehouse) it's just track. But I think there are two possible meanings, the physical track itself ("leaves on the line") and the route ("a new proposed line between Boston and New York"). Renard Migrant (talk) 18:44, 29 December 2014 (UTC).
- RFV-failed. Plenty of citations refer to e.g. using mines to blow up or warp a railway line, where railway line clearly refers to a small section of the physical track rather than e.g. the abstract route — but more likely the entire track of however many rails (usually two, but if the mine/bomb was placed at a junction, then potentially three or four), rather than just one rail. - -sche (discuss) 20:38, 6 March 2015 (UTC)