Talk:record

Adjective?

Note: the below discussion was moved from the Wiktionary:Tea room.

Anyone have thoughts about what is presumably an adjective sense of this word, which sense we do not currently have in wiktionary, though it is represented in the pronunciation section. Something like "surpassing any previously recorded achievement or performance of its kind", for "The record turnout of voters" and "A record year for gas prices". I put it here because we've recently explored the issue of nouns masquerading as adjectives and other attributive use, and I wanted y'all's thoughts on whether it's made the full crossover to adjective. It's certainly not comparable (more, most record), but it doesn't seem quite the same as other noun adjuncts that have been recently discussed (amazon, satellite, dairy). Ok... go. -- Thisis0 20:14, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

It feels more like a noun to me, but I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be a proper adjective. It looks as though the meaning of "a record turnout of voters" is "a turnout of voters that is a record." That sort of meaning is typical of attributive noun use: "an elephant hide" means "a hide that comes from an elephant"; "a computer terminal" is "a terminal belonging to a computer". You can't usually do that sort of grammatical juggling with a true adjective; any juggling leaves you with an adjective: "a big box" means "a box that is big" and "a lonely mountain" is "a mountain that seems lonely". The juggling requires use of a clause with a copula rather than a mainstream verb, but does not permit the phrase following the copula to take an article. It's a bit of a borderline case, but it looks more like a noun to me. --EncycloPetey 20:30, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

It looks like attributive only, no comparative, and not readily modified by an adverb ("very" is my favorite).

Of course, the problem remains that our users may not look at the noun for the meanings. I still like the notion of an adjective PoS section that directs users to the noun for meanings, but I didn't think anyone agreed with that. I'd be perfectly happy if WT:PREFS allowed anyone who wanted to turn that off in their view. My concern is not for active contributors, experienced users, or even sophisticated new users; it is for naive new users. DCDuring TALK 20:40, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

The OED call this "attrib., passing into adj.", which seems a good way of describing these emerging phenomena. I have to admit, I think of it as a noun. Widsith 07:12, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

I never thought about it, but it seems clear it's not an adjective yet. It can't be a predicate complement by itself: *Voter turnout today is record. And attributive modifiers to this kind of record are nouns and adjectives, not adverbs (a state/regional/*regionally record 2,407 yards). —Jorend 13:32, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

I have just added the adjective with a citation that wouldn't work under any noun sense. Equinox ◑ 18:02, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

evidence

something that acts as evidence or a memorial
The Egyptian pyramids are a record of human engineering expertise.
Microsoft® Encarta® 2009

--Backinstadiums (talk) 16:36, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

Dutch pronunciation

@Lingo Bingo Dingo Belgian-Dutch pronunciation is indeed spelling pronunciation, so with a short o and a final t. You may encounter some Flemish news anchors who use the Dutch-Dutch pronunciation (same with "dossier" btw), but that's not common elsewhere and sounds very artificial/contrived. Morgengave (talk) 20:34, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

@Morgengave Which syllable is stressed and what is the quality of the e? Perhaps you could give an IPA. And is it valid for both etymologies, if both are used in Belgium? ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 09:22, 21 August 2021 (UTC)