Talk:room for a pony
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PoS noun; defined as adjective: "spacious, roomy". from UK TV show. Needs clean up and citation by someone more familiar than I with its uptake into UK usage. Not a catch phrase in US AFAIK. DCDuring TALK 18:26, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
- Never heard of it (UK). SemperBlotto 06:58, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
- Three book cites now added.--Dmol 11:33, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
- Do the cites really indicate meaning that is not SoP? It's not obvious. Maybe it would be good to determine the relative frequency of the headword relative to "room for a" in some appropriately restricted search universe (like UK newspapers or real-estate books or fiction). Otherwise, it would be good to have confirmation from UK-based editors that it was special compared to "room for a garden" or "room for a workshop" or "room for an office". DCDuring TALK 11:52, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
- All the examples you mentioned do exist, as does room for a pony when they literally were talking about a pony. But this is a set phrase, comically used, that parodies the jargon used by real estate agent when selling a home. Maybe it needs a better definition or a usage note. I can’t see how it could be SoP when there is not any real sense of what is room for a pony. --Dmol 12:15, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
- Sitting in the US I have no evidence of that. If some editors said they agreed with you, I'd be OK and I'm in no hurry. We could wait until October. As to your last point, people use vague SoP phrases, like "clean enough for Mom" that are not any more precisely defined. DCDuring TALK 14:45, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
- All the examples you mentioned do exist, as does room for a pony when they literally were talking about a pony. But this is a set phrase, comically used, that parodies the jargon used by real estate agent when selling a home. Maybe it needs a better definition or a usage note. I can’t see how it could be SoP when there is not any real sense of what is room for a pony. --Dmol 12:15, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
- Do the cites really indicate meaning that is not SoP? It's not obvious. Maybe it would be good to determine the relative frequency of the headword relative to "room for a" in some appropriately restricted search universe (like UK newspapers or real-estate books or fiction). Otherwise, it would be good to have confirmation from UK-based editors that it was special compared to "room for a garden" or "room for a workshop" or "room for an office". DCDuring TALK 11:52, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
What is "SoP"? --Una Smith 02:45, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
- Sum of Parts. See WT:GL for that and other Wiktionary jargon. In principle, if a phrase has no meaning beyond its component words, then it is not idiomatic and does not normally merit inclusion in a dictionary. See WT:CFI#Idiomaticity. DCDuring TALK 02:59, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
- Got it. Thanks! --Una Smith 21:36, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
"Room for a pony" is an idiomatic expression, that goes beyond SoP. People in the US and UK do say they want "room for a X" where X is a garden, swimming pool, pony, horse, whatever. But in the UK "room for a pony" has a special meaning: social climbing. A single pony is the absolute minimum required for entry to the ranks of the pony club set, the hunt club set, etc. Also, in the UK many horses are kept by less than wealthy owners in a rented pasture, a parcel of grass with a fence or wall around it. The pasture may be miles from the owner's house. To have room for a pony in the UK implies not only having a pony but also having a house with attached pasture and a stable. Likely an old house. That is the home of a landed gentleman, not a working man. --Una Smith 21:36, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
- The definition given is now "spaciousness, roominess (of land)." That doesn't seem idiomatic to me. If three cites show the meaning you suggest, then it would seem more idiomatic. Try to come up with a nicely worded additional definition reflecting what you believe to be the case. Do the current citations illustrate it clearly? If not, are there other cites that do? Sometimes the citations you find can take you in somewhat unexpected directions, so you might want to start with the citations. DCDuring TALK 00:41, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
- Found an older citation, revised definition. Better? --Una Smith 14:52, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
- There is an inconsistency in having a 20th-21st-century etymology and a 19th century citation supporting it. Something's gotta give. Also, the citation seems more like the SoP sense. In searching b.g.c. you can put time bounds consistent with all aspects of the current entry. If that doesn't work, then figure out what's weak in the entry: etymology, definition, spelling? The citations are the raw material, the unyielding facts, though they can look different to different people and to the same person at different times (especially after a good night's sleep). DCDuring TALK 17:02, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
This has been Cited so no need to keept it at RFV --Jackofclubs 16:24, 17 June 2009 (UTC)