Talk:takar

Container name etymology

@Wiktionarian89, Houflings, Austronesier: I suppose we can add this as another descendant from Persian تغار (tağār), in the same manner as پنگان (pingān) is all over the place. I am not buying “Proto-Austronesian” reconstruction as in Blust, Robert A. (1970) “Proto-Austronesian addenda”, in Oceanic Linguistics‎^[1], volume 9, number 2, page 121 Nr. 90, which disregards even our current observation of Tagalog being borrowed from Malay and is typical of the mindset where field studies overbalance historical philology. (Also, the reverse direction is not verisimile if one knows that Persian had this ta- prefix in various words, including e.g. تگلتو (tagaltū) and ترازو (tarāzū).) Fay Freak (talk) 18:06, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

To be fair, when Bob published this, he was still under Dempwolff's spell, which underestimated the impact of Malay borrowing into Tagalog and other Philippine languages. This "cognate" set has survived as a loanword set in the ACD.

I don't consider a Persian origin likely. First, why is the medial consonant devoiced? Then, what is the trajectory? Pinggan entered Malay via an Indic medium, most probably Tamil. Is there an Urdu equivalent of تغار ? Finally, the Javanese and Balinese forms point to a certain antiquity of the word at least in western Indonesia. The Javanese/Balinese schwa in the ultimate syllable must be original, and final h in Balinese corresponding to r in Javanese and Malay points either to common inheritance from a local proto-something or at least to very early borrowing from Old Malay or Old Javanese. –Austronesier (talk) 20:11, 12 October 2022 (UTC)