Talk:thirteensome

RFD discussion: September 2023

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thirteensome

@कालमैत्री has put this up for speedy deletion, I contested this and they told me to go to rfde or rfve. I'll let them explain their rationale. 115.188.126.180 08:51, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Reason is same as above section one's. कालमैत्री (talk) 09:18, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

What section @कालमैत्री? —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 09:28, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

ex-king section कालमैत्री (talk) 09:56, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Keep, it has three cites and I don't see how this is different from thirteenth and thirteenfold. Afaik the only exclusion policy on numbers is WT:CFI#Numbers, numerals, and ordinals which only applies to numbers above 100 that are not single words. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 09:28, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

@Al-Muqanna The word is clearly created by the authors in analogy with threesome and neither it complies with WT:ATTEST कालमैत्री (talk) 10:04, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

@कालमैत्री: Err, so? Loads of words are created by analogy, just search "by analogy with" for instances in etymology sections. Attestation issues are handled by WT:RFV, not RFD, but this entry already has three independent citations. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 10:27, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

I see that it satisfies WT:ATTEST, but still don't think this entry should exist.

"by analogy with"; did you see I also wrote : created by the authors

कालमैत्री (talk) 10:45, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

@Al-Muqanna कालमैत्री (talk) 10:46, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I did see it. Plenty of words are rederived rather than specifically learned, including most English ordinal numbers; this is indeed one of the mechanisms of language change. "Not rederived" is not one of our inclusion criteria. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 10:52, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

@Al-Muqanna i just saw sixteensome is even more citeable; i think i will add it कालमैत्री (talk) 12:10, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

I don't particularly like this entry, but it's the price we pay for having clear and consistant rules that ordinary mortals can apply. The examples do have a sort of mentiony feel: they're used only to contrast with more common -somes for purposes of exaggeration, not because someone has a literal grouping of 13 in mind. That said, I'm having trouble even explaining why I don't like the quotes, let alone providing any repeatable test that could be applied to any other case. Chuck Entz (talk) 21:58, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

(@Chuck Entz How is "[a music piece] they are arranging for a “thirteensome” made up of eleven ukuleles, one mixed voice and a snare drum" not referring to a literal grouping of 13? —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 22:37, 8 September 2023 (UTC))

This has clearly been submitted by someone unaware of how dictionaries work. We can safely disregard their presented arguments. Vininn126 (talk) 10:56, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

For the record we also have twelvesome. I’ll vote keep anyway. ·~ dictátor·mundꟾ 17:49, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

• Speedy keep as nominated without a valid policy rationale. This is clearly an attested term, and a single word rather than a phrase, so it fairly represents the baseline of includability, every bit as much as twosome or threesome. bd2412 T 21:26, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

There are some IPs around who are really into numbers. In German someone has created hundreds of entries like vierundzwanzigköpfig, Sechsunddreißigeck etc. But yes, keep obv. Jberkel 21:47, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Keep due to absence of rationale, and plausibility! But by all means send to RFV if needed. Equinox ◑ 21:57, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

To do what tho? It already has 3 cites. —Al-Muqanna المقنع (talk) 22:33, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

I have added another. Perhaps we should find nine more to make it a thirteensome. bd2412 T 00:03, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

• Speedy kept. There's no issue here. Jewle V (talk) 18:26, 14 September 2023 (UTC)