Wiktionary:Grease pit/2022/February

discussion rooms: Tea room • Etym. scr. • Info desk • Beer parlour • Grease pit ← January 2022 · February 2022 · March 2022 → · (current)

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Brajabuli

Hello! Here I face a problem with an entry, namingly অকামিক, which is a “Brajabuli” term. Brajabuli is an artificial literary/poetic language from Medieval Bengal (see Brajabuli, not to be confused with Braj Bhasha). This arficial literary language has no ISO assigned language code for which I want to enter Brajabuli entries as Bengali lemmas. So, I was thinking to create an individual category, Category:Bengali Brajabuli terms as a subcategory of Category:Bengali archaic terms. It may need to add a parameter in Template:label, too. So, what do you guys think I should be doing? I will also be needing help to create a category or add a parameter to the template. Regards Meghmollar2017 (talk) 13:47, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

quote-video game actor/role request

Hey all. I had the following exchange about quote-video game versus quote-av, and it was concluded that new parameters might be useful for quote-video game. Let me know if I can clarify anything. Seems like a reasonably good idea to me.

ping|The Editor's Apprentice Thank you for telling me about this. Could you give me some guidance on how to "jiggle" the template to give me what I'm looking for? Here's my original with quote-av and I just don't like how it looks with quote-video game. Check this out if you have a moment. Any advice appreciated.

1. • 2008, Neil Ross, quotee, Mass Effect (video game) Codex- Aliens: Extinct Races- Varren, BioWare, →ISBN, →OCLC:

     The krogan have had a love-hate relationship with varren for millennia, alternately fighting them for territory and embracing them as treasured companions.

   • 2008, “Varren”, in Mass Effect (video game) Codex- Aliens: Extinct Races, spoken by Neil Ross, BioWare, →ISBN, →OCLC:

     The krogan have had a love-hate relationship with varren for millennia, alternately fighting them for territory and embracing them as treasured companions.

Geographyinitiative (talk) 19:16, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

I guess I would format it to something along these lines:

2008, BioWare, Mass Effect, Redwood City: Electronic Arts, →ISBN, →OCLC, PC, scene: Varren Codex entry:

The krogan have had a love-hate relationship with varren for millennia, alternately fighting them for territory and embracing them as treasured companions.

I've added some information from the Wikipedia page for the game and the WorldCat entry. I haven't included any mention of Neil Ross because no relevant parameter currently exists for Template:quote-video game. I encourage you to make a request at Wiktionary:Grease pit asking for that parameters like the actor and role parameters of Template:quote-av be added to the Template:quote-video game. Take care. —The Editor's Apprentice (talk) 19:44, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

--Geographyinitiative (talk) 19:49, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw who has worked a lot on these templates. Benwing2 (talk) 03:26, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Updating Module:pl-IPA so it generates proper stress for certain forms of verbs

Hey, the pl-IPA module currently generates transcriptions for all words with stress falling onto their second last syllable. While this does the job for most of the Polish entries, it also generates a lot of incorrect transcriptions for certain forms of verbs. As most (if not all) of those forms end the same way, perhaps it would be possible to update the module, so it generates the correct stress depending on the word ending? Although it's possible to add the correct stress manually, there is a lot of entries with incorrect stress (for example, most of the entries in the Category:Rhymes:Polish/awbɨɕ category).

Here are the things that would have to be added:

• For words ending with -liśmy, -liście, -łyśmy, -łyście, -łbym, -łabym, -łbyś, -łabyś, -łby, -łaby, -łoby, -liby, -łyby; the stress would fall onto the third last syllable.
  • (In case of words with less than three syllables, the stress would become regular - for example grałby)
• For words ending with -libyśmy, -łybyśmy, -libyście, -łybyście; the stress would fall onto the fourth last syllable.

Thanks in advance for any help Max19582 (talk) 17:36, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

I've managed to implement that myself (I put more info in Module_talk:pl-IPA#Corrected_stress_for_some_verb_forms). Max19582 (talk) 22:41, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Hey, I'd like to add that -liśmy, -liście, -łyśmy, -łyście usually actually get penultimate stress, the used to not but that's changed. 99% of the time you hear robiLIśmy. As to the -by particle and its forms, that one doesn't affect stress. And while we're at it, can we update it to include smarter syllables? l, ł , w, r usually are part of the syllable onset after another consonant (adres - a.dres), currently is ad.res. It'd also be nice to "teach" the module some common suffixes that always get their own syllable, i dunno how doable that is. (l and ł i guess should not be part of the cluster) Vininn126 (talk) 19:06, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Edit/paste failure

Is the a maximum limit, or syntax check which is causing whole pages from being saved? For example pasting Wiktionary:Greek adjective inflection-table templates in one go fails - although the text can be pasted into other applications. — Saltmarsh^🢃 11:27, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

@Saltmarsh Not heard of such a limit, although if you try to paste lots at once it can get slow depending on what gadgets you have enabled. There *is* a template expansion limit, but you should only hit that after you save the page, and it displays a message to that effect somewhere down the page when it hits the limit. Benwing2 (talk) 18:47, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

@Benwing2 Thanks — I will investigate further and report back. I have not found the same limit applies to all pages. — Saltmarsh^🢃 06:52, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

@Benwing2 In fact size doesn't matter #Paste failure text contains less that 3,000 characters and fails to paste - although removing a line or two, or merging two {{der-top5}} sections stops the problem. Since this is a problem easily got around, and I've wasted enough time trying to isolate what in the file causes the problem - I'll leave it there - and thanks again! — Saltmarsh^🢃 11:03, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia Library searches

The Wikipedia Library can now be searched as an interwiki, using [[twl:search term]]. I have added such a link to {{REEHelp}}, and created a page at Wiktionary:Wikipedia Library - would anyone like to expand the latter? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:44, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

How do you use this? 70.172.194.25 15:45, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Depends what you man by "this"; for the Wikipedia Library (requires Wikimedia account), see https://wikipedialibrary.wmflabs.org/ but for the template, just click on the "Wikipedia Library" link, once you are signed in to the WL. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:19, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

Self-reverting discussion

I am trying to delete the section I posted at Wiktionary:Tea room/2022/February#"replace by" in active voice but was stopped because of "WTNoD". 69.42.3.121 03:21, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

I removed it for you. There are lots of IP vandals who like to come in and randomly remove large chunks of text. The abuse filter you ran into stops that, but it's not smart enough to recognize that you were removing your own text. Chuck Entz (talk) 04:39, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

HotCat update

Would it be possible to update HotCat to add {{C}} and {{cln}} rather than [[Category]]? Vininn126 (talk) 13:39, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

More importantly, it should be able to find and work with all of the dedicated categorization templates. I use HotCat a lot, and I'm really tired of having to search through the wikitext and type in the whole category name to make changes. Chuck Entz (talk) 15:21, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

• Erutuon, Surjection might be able to do something with this. —Svārtava ^[t•u•r] 15:31, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

HotCat is currently hosted on commons so we'd have to make our own fork of it for en.wikt specifically. — SURJECTION ^{/ T / C / L /} 15:58, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Couldn't create Citations:Binging due to edit filter trip-up

See Special:AbuseLog. 207.81.187.41 01:07, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

Calling "subst=" multiple times

@Benwing2 or anyone else who knows: several templates including {{quote}} and {{ux}} (and others based on them}} have a parameter |subst= that allows you to override automatic transliteration for individual words within a quote or usage example. How do you separate these if there are multiple words that need their automatic transliteration overridden? I'm looking at the 1946 quote at דערציילן (dertseyln) specifically, where there are multiple words for which automatic transliteration won't work. —Mahāgaja · talk 09:10, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

You separate them by commas: |subst=FROM1//TO1,FROM2//TO2,FROM3//TO3. 70.172.194.25 09:15, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

Great, thanks! —Mahāgaja · talk 09:53, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

Cannot create Category:Lese language

I tried to create this with the code {{auto cat|the Democratic Republic of the Congo}} but I get an error saying my actions were automatically detected to be harmful or something to that effect...I guess this is mainly because I'm editing without an account huh? I can retry when I can access my account, but if someone else could do it first in the meantime that would be even better. 37.110.218.43 12:30, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

•  Done —Mahāgaja · talk 13:54, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks! 37.110.218.43 13:56, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

I tweaked the code in the abuse filter so it shouldn't stop such edits in the future. Chuck Entz (talk) 15:12, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Navigation in main rhymes-category pages is broken

If you go to Category:Rhymes:English, you are greeted with a truly enormous TOC template that fills the screen, with everything from "aa" to "zz" and "0" to "9". Just don't click on the links, or you will quickly learn this is a cruel hoax: rhymes categories all start with IPA vowels, most of which sort after "zz"- so most of the links go to something unexpected.

Can we come up with a TOC template suitable for IPA, and hack the category modules to use it on umbrella-category pages for languages with more than a couple-hundred rhymes categories? If we're serious about converting rhymes to categories, this should be fixed. Pinging @Surjection, whose native language has more than 90 pages of rhymes-category pages. Chuck Entz (talk) 15:09, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Fixed; the main rhyme category page will now use a {{en-rhymetopcategoryTOC}} and {{en-rhymetopcategoryTOC/full}} (etc. for other languages), but nothing for now as those templates do not exist. — SURJECTION ^{/ T / C / L /} 15:51, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Rollout of the new audio and video player

Please help translate to your language

Hello,

Over the next months we will gradually change the audio and video player of Wikis from Kultura to Video.js and with that, the old player won’t be accessible anymore. The new player has been active as a beta feature since May 2017.

The new player has many advantages, including better design, consistent look with the rest of our interface, better compatibility with browsers, ability to work on mobile which means our multimedia will be properly accessible on iPhone, better accessibility and many more.

The old player has been unmaintained for eight years now and is home-brewn (unlike the new player which is a widely used open source project) and uses deprecated and abandoned frameworks such as jQuery UI. Removing the old player’s code also improves performance of the Wikis for anyone visiting any page (by significantly reducing complexity of the dependency graph of our ResourceLoader modules. See this blog post.). The old player has many open bugs that we will be able to close as resolved after this migration.

The new player will solve a lot of old and outstanding issues but also it will have its own bugs. All important ones have been fixed but there will be some small ones to tackle in the future and after the rollout.

What we are asking now is to turn on the beta feature for the new player and let us know about any issues.

You can track the work in T100106

Thank you, Amir 17:59, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Polish combined forms

Polish used to have a separate headword for combined forms, which conflicted with the L3 POS. Thadh made a better template for combined forms, but the current problem is they are being categorized as lemmas. Would it be acceptable to use headwords such as {{head|pl|pronoun form}} for a word like myśmy, changing the part of speech to match, so they get categorized as non-lemmas? Vininn126 (talk) 21:10, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

AFAICT, the only difference between using {{head|pl|pronoun}} and {{head|pl|pronoun form}} is the categorization (Cat:Polish lemmas + Cat:Polish pronouns for the former, Cat:Polish non-lemma forms + Cat:Polish pronoun forms for the latter). If that is the desired output, I do not see any reason to hold back from making the switch, but I may be missing something. Is there some other combination of categories you would prefer? 70.172.194.25 05:32, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Pronoun form, conjunction form, mostly. Thanks for the answer. Vininn126 (talk) 06:55, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

affix/etymology parameter for WT:ACCEL

I was wondering if we could add a parameter for affixes in ACCEL. This can be useful for inflections that are formed by certain affix attached to the stem, other inflections etc. For example there are forms like کۆرمُت. In this particular case the m sg perfective participle is always formed by adding ـمُت to the m sg simple past form. Another example from a language I know is the करता/کرتا of Hindustani where the habitual participle forms by adding -tā to the stem. I plan on adding such information about suffixes in non-lemma entries, so I was wondering if this option could be added.

--Rishabhbhat (talk) 14:01, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
Pinging @Erutuon. --Rishabhbhat (talk) 04:41, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

My page edit was blocked by filter

Hello. This time, A editing filter was worked to block my edit. The reason was "too short". Yes, it was surely only {{MdC|wꜣḏ}} in the page, but it is necessary.

I have invented a simple Template "Template:MdC", in order to make the transfer page in a short time. I want you to make the filter unworked for this template-used page or give me a flag of exclusion from the filter. Thank you. -Sethemhat (talk) 10:24, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Use {{subst:MdC|wꜣḏ}} instead. 70.172.194.25 10:25, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

[Reply] Thank you for your information. I'll try it.--Sethemhat (talk) 02:37, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

Latin template issue

From what I have seen, the Latin conjugation template generates a second-person plural future active imperative form for deponent verbs (semi-deponents are fine) without one actually existing. After taking a look at the module (albeit with absolutely no experience with lua) nothing looks particularly wrong, the thing that most looks like it might be wrong would be the inclusion of '{}' when adding passive imperatives to the 'make_pres_nth' functions. Either way, could somebody find out what's going on here and fix it? Thanks. --Wikipediantic (talk) 22:32, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

I think this should fix it. See this example. 70.172.194.25 05:22, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

This has been solved as per 70.172.194.25's solution. Theknightwho (talk) 19:01, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Abuse filter hit

Hi there, I tried to edit the main Grease pit page but I hit the abuse filter and was unable to save (the filter was "Monthly-subpages discussion rooms". Is there any way I could bypass this? Thanks! EpicPupper (talk) 21:44, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

I spoke to EpicPupper on Discord and I made his edit, but the point stands that the abuse filter might be over-aggressive (although if your first edit on project is changing a project rules page, I dunno what to think). Equinox ◑ 22:31, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

WOTD protection?

I tried a simple edit to make the word of the day definition readable by removing the redundant (second) ‘from’ from below. The error message mentioned WOTD protection. I’m new to this but is this expected behaviour?

Ergative: With the subjects of transitive constructions having grammatical cases or thematic relations different from those of from intransitive constructions. — This unsigned comment was added by Peterwjsinclair (talk • contribs).

Hide a large list of derivations

What's the best and standard way to collapse this massive list of derivations without changing the structure in the middle at копейка#Derived_terms created by User:Gnosandes? --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:24, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

{{der4}} might be your best bet. Vininn126 (talk) 09:37, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

I'd also get rid of all two- and three-step derivations, also the SoPs. DCDuring (talk) 14:37, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia redirects

To the right of some definitions, a little box pops up that says, “Wikipedia has an article on x.” Can one put it there manually, and if so, how? --107.77.192.122 04:14, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Yes, you can use {{wikipedia}} for that (placed on a line directly under the language header, e.g. ==English==). If the Wikipedia article title is something other than the Wiktionary entry title, you use {{wikipedia|article title here}}. For more options, see Template:wikipedia. 70.172.194.25 04:15, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Thesaurus bot task

Per Wiktionary:Information_desk/2022/February#List of synonyms, I propose the following bot task and algorithm:

• Task: Categorize all pages whose titles do not contain "/translations" in the Thesaurus namespace by language.
• Algorithm for each page:
  • If {{ws header|lang=xyz}} is present, stop, since that already adds the category.
  • If there is a ==Language== line with a valid language name, look up the code, and if valid, add {{ws header|lang=xyz}} to the top of the page (or |lang= to the template, if already there).
  • Otherwise, stop and add it to a list for manual review. (You could try to get smart and implement a way of determining the language by looking at what L2s are present on the linked entries, etc., but the time cost > benefit potentially.)

It might be possible to come up with an even smarter solution! The above is just what I came up with in a few minutes of thinking. Pinging User:Koavf. 70.172.194.25 08:41, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Solution for how to stop the problem from reoccurring in the future: make an abuse filter for creations of Thesaurus pages that do not include the template parameter / language category (it should be possible to check this somehow). 70.172.194.25 08:49, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

I like this, 70. Thanks. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 09:28, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Macedonian audio files

Hello,

There are 2,405 Macedonian audio files at Wikimedia Commons, automatically uploaded via LinguaLibre. They are all in .wav format, so I downloaded them and duly converted them (as advised by the community in October), filtering out the ones which need amendments before they become usable. I now have about 1900 .ogg files ready to upload, but they're on my local drive instead of at Wikimedia Commons. I would like to upload them there, but I was not the one who recorded them and I am shown many intimidating legal disclaimers when I try to upload them on behalf of the creator. I am therefore thinking of sending the .ogg files to him, so that he can upload them himself. In that case, the files will exist as duplicates at Wikimedia Commons, in a .wav format as well as an .ogg format. Would that be the right way to go about this, or is there some way to make LinguaLibre populate this page with .ogg files? I was also wondering where the .ogg files should be uploaded, and I suppose that Category:Macedonian_pronunciation ought to be the right place. Martin123xyz (talk) 10:55, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

The uploader should be able to replace the file. Vininn126 (talk) 11:24, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Could you please provide more specific instructions? Is the replacement performed through LinguaLibre or directly at Wikimedia Commons? Martin123xyz (talk) 11:28, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

I think this should be able to help. Vininn126 (talk) 11:36, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

I don't think you can replace the file when the file formats are different. 70.172.194.25 is correct that the licence should be sufficient for a re-upload. Theknightwho (talk) 16:04, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

FYI, if the content was licensed freely—which it should be if it's on Commons—you should have no legal difficulties with reuploading in a different format, as long as you give attribution to the creator and include the original licensing terms. 70.172.194.25 15:32, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the replies. I have also addressed the matter at Wikimedia Commons' help desk and they have confirmed that I am free to reupload the files in a different format, but they have also pointed out that this wouldn't be useful for linking Macedonian audio files to the corresponding pages on Wiktionary. Specifically, the main argument in favour of the .ogg format was that it is more compressed and takes up less space, but I have now been told that since the Macedonian audio files have already been recorded in a .wav format on Wikimedia Commons, they are already taking up a lot of space, and reuploading them as .ogg files would only take up further space. Furthermore, even if the .wav files were to be deleted, the space they are currently taking up would not become newly available. Finally, even though the audio files are saved in a .wav format, they can be played in an .ogg format (e.g. if one opens часовник (časovnik) and clicks on "menu" on the audio bar, one is asked to choose to download the file as ".ogg" or ".mp3"). As a result, if no one here has any objections, I will not be converting the .wav files into .ogg files and I will start linking them to individual pages as they are. Martin123xyz (talk) 08:23, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

• I'd just pretend they were made by me. Notusbutthem (talk) 00:13, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Hiberno-English Babel userbox

I may be wrong here but is there any babel userbox for Hiberno-English similar to en-GB or en-US. If not how would I go about making one (called perhaps en-IE or similar) FishandChipper (talk) 22:12, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Copy the content of Template:User en-GB-N to Template:User en-IE-N, and change the GB's to IE's, and the British to Irish. Then redirect Template:User en-IE to Template:User en-IE-N. Finally, for good measure, create Category:User en-IE and User en-IE-N, with the same obvious substitutions from their GB equivalents. That should do it. 70.172.194.25 00:50, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Turning off the "edit saved" notice

Is there any way to turn off the "Your edit was saved" notice that now keeps popping up? — SGconlaw (talk) 09:03, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Glad I'm not the only one that noticed it. Vininn126 (talk) 10:36, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

It’s really irritating; I don’t see what purpose it serves. — SGconlaw (talk) 15:17, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

It's marginally useful when edits are made by a gadget like HotCat, but it's too annoying to be worth it. If we can figure out how it's implemented, I'm guessing it would be possible to suppress it using js. Chuck Entz (talk) 15:58, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

I wish they would always provide an option under "Preferences" to deselect these things. — SGconlaw (talk) 16:18, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

I found a bunch of old Wikipedia discussions where people suggested: .postedit{display:none}. However, it looks like the CSS classes have been changed. The following works, but it will hide other similar notifications too, like for updating one's watchlist (maybe this is desired): .mw-notification-area{display:none}. To make this a gadget:

• Place the CSS into MediaWiki:Gadget-HidePopups.css.
• Create a textual description at MediaWiki:Gadget-HidePopups.
• Add HidePopups[ResourceLoader|type=styles]|HidePopups.css to MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition.

Otherwise, you can just add the CSS to Special:MyPage/common.css. 70.172.194.25 20:11, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, that worked for me (though I had to change it to .mw-notification-area{display:none}). I already had the postedit command on my common.css page but it no longer worked. — SGconlaw (talk) 20:52, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

(Did you have #mw-notification-area>* with the last two characters as I had written? Maybe not having that was the reason it did not work. Anyway, I have edited it to the version that works for both of us, to save people time in case there is some difference.) 70.172.194.25 21:36, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

I find that it's useful on mobile when I have a dodgy connection. Theknightwho (talk) 01:04, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

@70.172.194.25: I first followed what you had written (with a # in front and >* at the back, but this generated a warning triangle ⚠️ so I tried following the syntax of postedit. What are the # and >* for? — SGconlaw (talk) 04:15, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

.mw-notification-area { ... } says "apply this style rule to all HTML elements on the page in the class mw-notification-area". #mw-notification-area > * { ... } says apply this to all children of the element with ID mw-notification-area. In this case, the end result is the same. 70.172.194.25 07:39, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

I want to point out that this popup does not have a close button, nor does it seem to disappear with time, so it can cover interface elements and make them inaccessible. Maybe we can fast-track this through the wheelchair route. Equinox ◑ 20:11, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Adding non-Unicode characters

Hi - I would like to add the Latin letters uncial M and uncial B, which are used in the Domesday book (among other texts) to mean "manerium" (manor) and "berewica" (berewick) respectively:
   
These characters are not encoded in Unicode, but their use has a very specific meaning, and other uses of the letters M and B are not written in the uncial form. How do we deal with this? Theknightwho (talk) 00:20, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

If they don't have Unicode codepoints, they'll have to be entered somewhere that does exist in Unicode, probably M and B (in the relevant language section), with some kind of note and images to explain. I know there's a Chinese term where the single-character version (vs 招財進寶) isn't encoded in Unicode, and so my text just now was an image, so the same approach of using an image might be used to get the Uncial form to display even in the header (proof of concept). - -sche (discuss) 06:51, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

That's a good shout. On a completely unrelated note, we should probably add an entry for (duang), which is pretty famous at this point and will probably never get encoded. Found it. Theknightwho (talk) 23:13, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Word of the day – March 6

I attempted to edit Wiktionary:Word of the day/2022/March 6 to reflect the definition's changed context labels but I received this error message: "Error: This action has been automatically identified as harmful, and therefore disallowed. If you believe your action was constructive, please start a new Grease pit discussion and describe what you were trying to do. A brief description of the abuse rule which your action matched is: WOTD Protection". I am wondering how best to proceed. Thanks, Graham11 (talk) 07:35, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

@Graham11: the WOTDs are specially protected as they are a vandalism target. (I'm not sure what triggers the filter exactly; @Chuck Entz will be able to explain.) But why did you remove "chiefly in the negative" from {{lb}}? I think that is to indicate that the verb is chiefly used thus: "don't get your knickers in a twist". — SGconlaw (talk) 08:10, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

@Sgconlaw I would assume that the term is used positively nearly as often; e.g., "Jane really had her knickers in a twist over the new filing system." (Naturally, I don't have any numbers to back that up.) Perhaps "often in the negative" might be appropriate? Though I don't think we usually use "often" with "in the negative" in context labels. Graham11 (talk) 08:16, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

@Graham11: "Often in the negative" sounds like a good compromise. — SGconlaw (talk) 08:19, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

How often is often? How chief is chiefly? DCDuring (talk) 15:24, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

How long is a piece of string? Seriously, though, "chiefly" connotes "most of the time" while "often" connotes "much of the time", so I do perceive a difference. — SGconlaw (talk) 17:47, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

I'mma have to agree with Graham here. It's not a specially used-in-negative phrase. Notusbutthem (talk) 19:23, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Creating Template:et-form of

Hello everyone, I have noticed that Estonain is a bit underrepresented in the English Wiktionary as far as entries and words, so I want to begin contributing by making pages for different verb and noun forms that already have their root words listed in Wiktionary.

To do this, I'd like to make a Template that's essentially the Estonian version of Template:fi-form of, because 'et-verb form of' is missing things like the ability to specify 'indicative mood' and I don't want to break anything by modifying that template. I also really like Template:fi-form of because it works for both verbs and nouns whereas Estonian currently requires using different Templates depending on if the word is a verb, a superlative, or a comparative adjective.

Anyway, I'm having a bit of trouble finding the actual code that creates Template:fi-form of. I think that with that code in hand, it will be very straightforward to modify it to become et-form of -- Finnish and Estonian grammar are quite similar. Thanks in advance for any assistance. — This unsigned comment was added by Persee28 (talk • contribs) at 15:19, 27 February 2022 (UTC).

@Persee28: Hello. I've created {{et-form of}} by changing the language code instances at {{fi-form of}}. —Svārtava (t/u) • 15:24, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! You can also check out Category:Requests concerning Estonian as a good place to find useful things to do Notusbutthem (talk) 19:25, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Templatifying quotations

It'd be lovely to get a bot to put certain quotes into templated form. For example, all of these Faerie Queene quotes are so easy to convert to Template:RQ:Spenser Faerie Queene that it seems pointless to do it by hand. Any volunteers? Notusbutthem (talk) 20:20, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

@Benwing2, perhaps you can help. — SGconlaw (talk) 04:38, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Template:listen

Hi pitters. Can someone fiddle with Template:listen so that it categorizes into, say, Category:Entries with sounds clips? I'll do them a favour in return Notusbutthem (talk) 23:21, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

It already categorizes into Category:Entries with audio examples. 70.172.194.25 23:26, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Some issues with MediaWiki:Gadget-SpecialSearch.js

1. It works on Special:Search?search= but not index.php?... To reproduce, click on "Wikiwix" and then "Search" in both provided links: the first leads to an URL with the parameter action=asdfg, the latter to one with search=asdfg. The critical line is L111 but I couldn't quite fix it.
2. All search engine links contain a lot of garbage parameters. While L54 is the culprit for the searchengineselect= parameter, I couldn't figure out a fix for all unwanted parameters. — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 14:41, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Try this: [1]. 70.172.194.25 20:48, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your efforts, I'll look into it soon-ish. — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 00:10, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

I've looked at the code now and added it. It works perfectly, thank you a lot! — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 09:46, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Bulk update

Hi, Recently Etymology department of Tamilnadu has released bilingual official corpus for Tamil Wiktionary. I would like to update Tamil translation for the word which exist in English Wiktionary. As per earlier calculation it would be arround 60,000 words. I would like to make edit like this. Can I develop my own BOT to make this and apply or do we have any existing BOT to perform this activity? Any other suggestions are also welcomed. -Neechalkaran (talk) 00:07, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

@Neechalkaran: How would the bot know which translation box to place the translation into? — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 00:09, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Here are five (non-cherrypicked) random lines from the CSV file. I don't know Tamil, but maybe this gives a sense of what kind of stuff is contained within:

• thrived property, தெரிபொருள்
• status group, தகுநிலைக் குழு
• as dining at the same table, சாட்சி
• bitter bark of a tree, கைப்புப்பட்டை
• Identical product, ஒத்த விளைபொருள், ஒத்த விளைவாக்கம்

As you can see, many of the English glosses do not correspond to entries we have. Further, some of them are rather cryptic. Even if we restricted it to only terms that have an English-language entry here, I would still feel a little uneasy about importing them wholesale, without at least semi-automatic checking, since the level of quality assessment seems questionable. (An example: "Dollard", which does not appear to be a word other than a surname, is translated as மழுக்கறிவன் (maḻukkaṟivaṉ), which has zero Google hits.)

I am furthermore curious as to how this table of translations was generated, and how it is licensed. I searched some entries on Google and found random websites that had them; for example, "as dining at the same table" seems to come from the Fabricius Tamil and English Dictionary, where the full gloss is "a guest, as dining at the same table". That particular source looks public domain, since J. P. Fabricius died in 1791, but I'm sure not all terms came from there, as some refer to modern concepts, like "internet service provide^[sic]". Is this really produced by the Tamil Nadu government? 70.172.194.25 04:25, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

@Fytcha:, yes. I agree, selecting the right box would be a challenge. However, when Translation box is not found or only one Box is found, then we can append in that case. Let me know if this logic works. @70.172.194.25:, Yes, This is owned by Tamil development department of Tamilnadu. மழுக்கறிவன் has zero Google hits due to zero SEO technique in their website. Direct link is here -Neechalkaran (talk) 09:07, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

@Neechalkaran: Please also note that Tamil is a well-documented language which means that we require there to exist three independent, durably archived citations spanning at least a year. While these citations don't have to be entered into Wiktionary (except for when a term goes through WT:RFV), they should exist out there. I do question however whether, for instance, the term சுவை நயத்தீர்ப்பாளர் (cuvai nayattīrppāḷar) that you've added to arbiter elegantiarum can be attested: Google Books, Google Scholar and Google Groups all look completely empty (though there could be inflected forms, which also count towards the three attestation criterion). — Fytcha〈 T | L | C 〉 09:16, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Ok. They have released only few days back to Tamil Wiktionary. So Let us wait for another year for attestation. Thanks for the information. -Neechalkaran (talk) 09:21, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

But the point of a dictionary is to document language as it already exists, not to coin new words for concepts in the hope that someone else uses them in the future.

Anyway, I'm still not very convinced by the quality of this database. Even if they have a page translating "மழுக்கறிவன்" as "Dollard", that still raises the questions of: what is "Dollard" (it does not appear to be a regular English word) and why does the Tamil translation have no uses?

I would be skeptical of importing terms from this source without manual checking to make sure we aren't adding garbage to entries; I looked through the CSV file and I'm sure that at least the English side has a lot of garbage, so it seems at least a priori possible that the Tamil side does too, although I cannot tell as easily. Another example: Blome (whatever that means) = "உயிர்வாழ்த் தகுதியுடைய மண்டிலம்" (Google translates as "Survival Zone"; no hits other than the wordlist itself).

And there's still the question about licensing. It appears to be derived from a hodgepodge of sources, but it's unclear what those sources are. Fabricius might be okay as I mentioned earlier (although if they're using the revised 1972 edition, perhaps not). But where are the terms like "இணையமும் அரசியலும்" ("internet and politics") coming from? Were they entered manually? I feel it more likely that they were copied from another source by an automated script, to be honest, but the database seemingly does not include any information that would let one figure that out. 70.172.194.25 16:18, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

I would guess that "Blome" is a scanno for "biome". It looks like someone tried to export text from one or more PDFs without checking the result. I've been doing something similar with ethnological articles on California Indians (strictly for personal use), but I always allow for days or even weeks of manually fixing scannos and putting back things like end-of-line characters that the OCR ignored. If you want to see where this kind of thing leads, take a look at Malagasy Wiktionary, which is almost entirely built by bot- garbage in, garbage out. Chuck Entz (talk) 03:23, 2 March 2022 (UTC)