Talk:Äken

RFV discussion: April–July 2020

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Äken

--B-Fahrer (talk) 18:43, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

@B-Fahrer: It's unclear what you want. You admit the entry is attested, but in the idiosyncratic orthography of a certain linguist, which we are not required to follow. Why should we not keep it in normalised form? —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 05:36, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Johann Gottfried Ludwig Kosegarten's 1859 Wörterbuch der niederdeutschen Sprache älterer und neuerer Zeit: Bd., 1.-3. Lfg. A-angetoget, page 172, has both this and the alt form we list. Kosegarten does not capitalize definienda, even proper nouns like the names of towns, so he has "äker.* äken. ein kleiner Keßel von Messing; in der Grafschaft Mark. […] ", but AFAIK we capitalize German Low German nouns (like we also capitalize German nouns, notwithstanding that that some old dictionaries and books don't capitalize them, ether), so the normalization to Äken is in Ordnung. (There is a question, I suppose, of whether this is dialectally limited or archaic/obsolete, and whether the definition needs to be tweaked...) - -sche (discuss) 02:37, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

@Metaknowledge: æken (small æ, and not even small ä) is not Äken (capital Ä). Woeste uses many uncommon characters (á, à, â, å, æ, æ̊, ə, oͤ [besides ä], o, [comma below o]).

Woeste only gives "kleiner kessel" as sense but also has "ækern, messingen [...] unterschieden von ko,pern [comma below o] [...]"; Kosegarten has "kleiner Keßel von Messing". Messing is not copper which is mentioned in the entry here. So, is the part about the material in the entry correct?
Both Kosegarten and Woeste's dictionary do not only contain New Low German. In Woeste's dictionary: "auch die Nachbardialekte mit hinein gezogen, besonders das Südwestfälische [...], die angrenzenden Bergischen Mundarten, [...] Ausserdem gieng Woeste den Spuren des Dialektes in den älteren Urkunden nach [...]". In Kosegarten's dictionary: "Dies Wörterbuch erstreckt sich [...] vom dreizehnten Jahrhundert bis zur gegenwärtigen Zeit [...] Auch ist die Niederrheinische oder Kölnische Sprache mit aufgenommen" and "Einen besonderen Zweig des Niederdeutschen bildet [...] die Kölnische Sprache". Can we be sure that æken or äken is New Low German and not something else? --B-Fahrer (talk) 08:46, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

• RFV-kept, yet again. You keep complaining about the orthography, but this has been successfully normalised. You are also complaining about copper vs brass, which is a rather small detail that I solved by tweaking the definition. Finally, you are complaining that we can't be certain from this source that it is indeed German Low German rather than, I suppose, Middle Low German — despite the fact that the entry's creator identified the lect. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 03:12, 20 July 2020 (UTC)