Talk:θαρραλέος

questions for Ancient part

I added the Ancient part, because when I'll make the modern inflection-pages, they collide with anc. θαρραλέος. May I ask...

1. I makred prosody θᾱρρ... only at IPA because it asked me to do it. Do I have to add it everywhere? (I thought α is assumed macron because of the two consonants following it)
2. Synonyms: do we have to add them in alphabetical order? (I usually think of them in order of strict or less strict synonymy.)
3. My Ety-source was Hofmann, but.. is there a way to alter the automatic link (there is no θαρραλέος lemma in Hofmann, only θάρσος), to a different one? Is this possible for R:s which include links?
4. I understand that ALL inflection pages of Anc.Gr. must have IPA. Yes?

I hope my Q-translation is ok. Thank you in advance (sorry to bother) sarri.greek (talk) 13:24, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you @Per utramque cavernam:X for 1) and 3) help. Is this αλφα not a 'θέσει μακρόν'? (macron because of position)? I have NO dictionary with prosody markings. Where could I get them... As for archive.org, I think it is our of order, it always brings up cover-page. Merci pour tous, you are great help. sarri.greek (talk) 19:31, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

@Sarri.greek: This is a common confusion. There's a difference between the length of vowel, and that of a syllable (that's why it might be preferable to speak of "heavy" and "light" syllables, not "long"/"short"). θαρ- is indeed long by position, but α is still short, as can be seen in θάρρος, which would be **θᾶρρος if alpha were long (σωτῆρα rule). Here are the rules:

• If vowel is long > syllable is long/heavy (regardless of position)
• If vowel is short > syllable is either 1) short/light, or 2) long/heavy by position.

Syllables heavy by position are actually a big problem, because it often "hides" the vowel length: indeed, the vowel can be long or short. So we have to resort to other means of finding the vowel length: etymology, place of the accent, σωτῆρα rule, Osthoff's law ...

And the problem is that we're the first dictionary (I think) to systematically give the vowel length (LSJ does this as well to some extent, with ^ and _).

I'm not very clear. If you don't understand, perhaps @Erutuon will explain that better than I can? --Per utramque cavernam (talk) 20:01, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

If it helps, it is not the vowel that is long by position, but the syllable; a vowel can be long or short in a syllable that is long by position (another term for that: closed syllable): τᾰ́ττω (táttō) and τᾰ́γμᾰ (tágma) vs. πρᾱ́ττω (prā́ttō) and πρᾶγμᾰ (prâgma). — Eru·tuon 20:08, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, indeed, gentlemen @Per utramque cavernam: and @Erutuon:. I am guilty of meddling with sth I have not studied. I will need a long time to acquaint myself with this --a bit--. I guess, a solicitor would argue: 'precisely because it is macron by position, we have to find out if it is also by nature'. I initially thought of this as a musician. I shall not try to guess a prosody mark again:) (But, I didn't want people to have to correct ALLLLL inflection pages too.) Thank you. sarri.greek (talk) 20:22, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

@Sarri.greek: 2) I usually add them in alphabetical order, but there's no obligation to do so. You may do as you see fit. 4) it's nice if they have them (I sometimes add them), but it's not indispensable, in my view. --Per utramque cavernam (talk) 23:43, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

I'm trying to make some model-pages for my use... Thanks @Per utramque cavernam: for your help. sarri.greek (talk) 06:11, 24 January 2018 (UTC)