Talk:кувшин

Unattested Lithuanian it says – mayhaps Turkic, demonstrably older

Given Tatar көпшә (köpşä, “tubular or bulbous hollow body”) and synonymous cognates, is it not instead a blatant Turkic borrowing? If no Turkic ending applies, the word was easily remodelled with -и́н (-ín) to be admitted into Russian declension.

“Lithuanian” derivation is the little sibling of the usual pattern of highballing Proto-Indo-European derivations from the armchair — as they do even for the plainest Latin borrowings like *golǫbь and спина (spina) —, but it already owns the suspicion of borrowing.

The given attestation date of 17th century appears to subsist from Vasmer’s time, Anikin giving 1489 followed by 1589, which Опыт словаря лексических балтизмов в русском языке I don’t find online. But he references Filin, F. P., editor (1981), “кувшинъ (кушинъ)”, in Словарь русского языка XI–XVII вв. [Dictionary of the Russian Language: 11ᵗʰ–17ᵗʰ cc.]‎^[1] (in Russian), numbers 8 (крада – лящина), Moscow: Nauka, page 103, where also old (“from 14th c.”) Filin, F. P., editor (1981), “кукшинъ”, in Словарь русского языка XI–XVII вв. [Dictionary of the Russian Language: 11ᵗʰ–17ᵗʰ cc.]‎^[2] (in Russian), numbers 8 (крада – лящина), Moscow: Nauka, page 113, making Baltic derivation more difficult.

@BurakD53, Vahagn Petrosyan – Fay Freak (talk) 10:26, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

I don't think it is. Their meanings are completely different. көпчәк here is not a regular tube. The junction of the wheel is the tube in the middle (wheel hub). So it has a narrower meaning than an ordinary tube. Likewise, кӗпҫе is used in Chuvash for the circular-tubelar stems of reeds. A pitcher, on the other hand, performs a completely different function. Also, if it ended with the letter n in Bulgar, it would be the same in Russian. Küpçek takes the suffix -chek here, we don't have the suffix -chen. – BurakD53 (talk) 12:13, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

@Fay Freak: this is not my area. All I can do is give you the literature, which mostly agrees with the Baltic origin. Vahag (talk) 18:14, 4 June 2022 (UTC)