Talk:уголь
Latest comment: 8 years ago by Wikitiki89
@Atitarev, Cinemantique, Wikitiki89 Can you check the decl of this word? It's rather complicated. I've tried to make it the same as Russian Wiktionary. Thanks. Benwing2 (talk) 06:16, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
- Currently it's not the same as ru.wikt (and their usage example рисовать углём (risovatʹ ugljóm, “to draw with charcoal”) even contradicts our current tables). The tables at ru.wikt show no division at all by meaning, but only three different patterns of declension. The only one I am personally familiar with is pattern b (i.e. the second table on ru.wikt), so all I can do is point you to the tables at ru.wikt. --WikiTiki89 15:06, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
- @Wikitiki89 Well, I'm trying to follow Zaliznyak + ru.wikt. Zaliznyak has 2*a [//2*b исх. форма нерегул.] with the definition "вещество", and 2*a // 2*e [И. В. ед. поэтич. устаревш. также угль] with the definition "кусок перегоревшего дерева, в частности, используемый для рисования"; см. также у́голья. He doesn't exactly say that the second possibility also has the irregular plural уголья but that agrees with the third table on ru.wikt, which shows 2*a // 2*e // -ья. ru.wikt does distinguish them by meaning, look under the "Морфологические и синтаксические свойства" section. Benwing2 (talk) 03:48, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
- @Benwing2, Cinemantique, Wikitiki89 The current split is acceptable. Ru:wikt does mention the split by meanings (in Морфологические и синтаксические свойства section). It also uses "угль" as a dated/poetic form for nom/acc sg. in Noun#2, which could be added. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 11:05, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
- @Atitarev угль was actually listed before but Cinemantique took it out and put a link in "alternative forms". Benwing2 (talk) 10:33, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
- Alternative nominative forms should be in the declension table of the lemma so that we don't spread information around and make it difficult to find. Thus угль should be in the tables on this page. Also, the usage example at ru.wikt ("Рисовать углём.") proves that the second group of definitions should also allow an ending-stressed singular. --WikiTiki89 01:39, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
- @Atitarev угль was actually listed before but Cinemantique took it out and put a link in "alternative forms". Benwing2 (talk) 10:33, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
- @Benwing2, Cinemantique, Wikitiki89 The current split is acceptable. Ru:wikt does mention the split by meanings (in Морфологические и синтаксические свойства section). It also uses "угль" as a dated/poetic form for nom/acc sg. in Noun#2, which could be added. --Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 11:05, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
- @Wikitiki89 Well, I'm trying to follow Zaliznyak + ru.wikt. Zaliznyak has 2*a [//2*b исх. форма нерегул.] with the definition "вещество", and 2*a // 2*e [И. В. ед. поэтич. устаревш. также угль] with the definition "кусок перегоревшего дерева, в частности, используемый для рисования"; см. также у́голья. He doesn't exactly say that the second possibility also has the irregular plural уголья but that agrees with the third table on ru.wikt, which shows 2*a // 2*e // -ья. ru.wikt does distinguish them by meaning, look under the "Морфологические и синтаксические свойства" section. Benwing2 (talk) 03:48, 14 September 2015 (UTC)