Talk:فتيل
Latest comment: 5 years ago by Calak
@Fay Freak: Northern Kurdish pilte, Central Kurdish پْڵیتە (pillîte), Southern Kurdish پلیتە (pilîte), پتیلە (pitîle), Classical Persian پلیته (palīta) (with پتیله (patīla) variant) should be from another Semitic language. Compare also Armenian փիլթայ (pʻiltʻay) (@Vahagn Petrosyan). When I was in Urmia, I had an Assyrian friend. He told me we say pilīt.--Calak (talk) 12:42, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Calak: Those are then from the Aramaic I have added to wick. Don’t know where the Georgian is from, Georgian apparently does not have /f/. Fay Freak (talk) 12:45, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- We can also add Tajik пилта (pilta) here. @Fay Freak: Can you create its Proto-Semitic?--Calak (talk) 13:03, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- פְּתִילָא must suffice. I see no evidence that it existed in Proto-Semitic, it is only in Aramaic and Arabic (by form a passive participle of the verb “to twist“; and possible even the Arabic meaning of a lamp-wick is a semantic loan from Aramaic) and with a different pattern in Ethiopic; though I can create the verb Proto-Semitic *patal- (“to twist”) which I see in Akkadian. @Calak Fay Freak (talk) 13:53, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- Thank you.--Calak (talk) 15:08, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- Ačaṙean lists many other members of this Sippe of words, the interrelationship between which is not clear to me. Georgian Georgian ფითილი (pitili) is easy. It must be from Ottoman Turkish, where /f/ was regularly replaced by /pʰ/. For Armenian փիլթա (pʻiltʻa) Ačaṙean implausibly claims Chagatai pilta as the immediate source, apparently because of the form. Apart from Calak's words above, the following also have p- and a tl > lt metathesis: Georgian ფილთა (pilta); Avar пилта (pilta); dialectal Turkish pilte, Azerbaijani piltə, Uyghur piltä, Uzbek pilta, many other Turkic forms; Mongolian бялт (bjalt); Tajik пилта (pilta), Persian paltaʾ. Räsänen apud
{{R:trk:ESTJa|pages=100—101|vol=VII}}explains p- and a tl > lt as a sound law within Turkic. --Vahag (talk) 20:43, 10 August 2018 (UTC)- Thank you for your comment Vahag. tl > lt metathesis has another evidence in Kurdish; fitilîn, felitîn.--Calak (talk) 21:14, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- Ačaṙean lists many other members of this Sippe of words, the interrelationship between which is not clear to me. Georgian Georgian ფითილი (pitili) is easy. It must be from Ottoman Turkish, where /f/ was regularly replaced by /pʰ/. For Armenian փիլթա (pʻiltʻa) Ačaṙean implausibly claims Chagatai pilta as the immediate source, apparently because of the form. Apart from Calak's words above, the following also have p- and a tl > lt metathesis: Georgian ფილთა (pilta); Avar пилта (pilta); dialectal Turkish pilte, Azerbaijani piltə, Uyghur piltä, Uzbek pilta, many other Turkic forms; Mongolian бялт (bjalt); Tajik пилта (pilta), Persian paltaʾ. Räsänen apud
- Thank you.--Calak (talk) 15:08, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- פְּתִילָא must suffice. I see no evidence that it existed in Proto-Semitic, it is only in Aramaic and Arabic (by form a passive participle of the verb “to twist“; and possible even the Arabic meaning of a lamp-wick is a semantic loan from Aramaic) and with a different pattern in Ethiopic; though I can create the verb Proto-Semitic *patal- (“to twist”) which I see in Akkadian. @Calak Fay Freak (talk) 13:53, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
- We can also add Tajik пилта (pilta) here. @Fay Freak: Can you create its Proto-Semitic?--Calak (talk) 13:03, 10 August 2018 (UTC)