Talk:قفل
copula[edit]
@Fay Freak: Isn't it from Latin copula?--Calak (talk) 14:42, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Calak That’s far-fetched, it existed in pre-Islamic times already. If borrowed it must have come from Aramaic as the linked Fraenkel wants to (which I haven’t found easy to believe so far); then you have to find a Greek intermediate. Compare also إِقْلِيد (ʔiqlīd, “key”). Fay Freak (talk) 14:53, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
- It is Asatrian's claim.--Calak (talk) 16:14, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
- @Calak: Since I do not read Kurdology you might add the Asatrian to the reference list wherever you found it. The derivation from Latin cōpula (of the Aramaic word, from which the Arabs most likely loaned when becoming sedentary, I have been convinced after rethinking the root) has already been posited by Brockelmann with question mark and affirmed by Christopher Toll, who perhaps read neither, but it is problematic in so far as locks appear first in the Orient and then Greeks learned about them, CAL rejects it resolutely; the reason why إِقْلِيد (ʔiqlīd, “key”) has spread so widely in Aramaic is clarified by Diem p. 144–145 as it being originally for the key of an upgraded version of lock from metal. Technical data on ancient oriental locks is scarce, it can be read further in Diem’s paper. Fay Freak (talk) 22:01, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
- It is Asatrian's claim.--Calak (talk) 16:14, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
Verbal nouns[edit]
I've seen "verbal noun of..." as a definition on quite a few Arabic entries, which I find unhelpful.
For example, قَفْل as a noun, in my experience, has meant "a padlock or a locking mechanism," which I'm not sure I would have arrived at from the the description given here -- "verbal noun of قَفَلَ (to lock) -- which could be understood as anything that is used to secure items, such as a clothespin or, perhaps, a paperweight.
Another example. What is a verbal noun of "to dry up"? Is it a dryer (the pair to a washing machine) or a clothesline (upon which cloth is secured or "locked in place")? Or is it something else, like a dehydrator? Or a dish-drying rack? Since this particular entry has not been found in my dialect yet I have no other reference point for clarification.
My apologies for the short rant. When adding a further, more specific definition, should that be entered as item 2 or on the same line as the "verbal noun" entry? I haven't seen a guideline for this yet. J0shingAr0nd (talk) 06:02, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
- @J0shingAr0nd Your experience is dialect-exclusive. In High Arabic it is قُفْل and not قَفْل so this is why it lacks under the Arabic header and we only have the verbal-noun definition, as helpful as intended; you always have to expect that a dialect vocalization deviates – we have many entries to add and are rarely able to add dialectological data. “to dry up” has the further gloss “wither” so it is somewhat clear it is about plants and the like. You also have the opportunity to click on the dictionaries to read more, also consult the originals on https://www.almaany.com/ and http://lisaan.net/ if your Arabic suffices, and indeed they make the context explicit: Freytag, which I linked, glosses: aridus, siccus fuit, de pelle, arbore (“It was withered, it was dry, of a hide or a tree”). Fay Freak (talk) 13:44, 29 January 2020 (UTC)