Talk:ܚܝܘܬܐ

Pronunciation

Hi @Antonklroberts, im wondering where to the pronunciation of this word in modern Assyrian comes from, since to my knowledge it’s not inherited but I do know that many modern Assyrian words are taken from Audo’s dictionary. Looking at the dictionary I see this is spelled ܚܲܝ݇ܘܬ݂ܵܐ. The ܒ݇ slanted mark traditionally signifies that there is no vowel after the letter it is placed on, the equivalent of Arabic sukoon بْ. So this would mean the word in Audo’s dictionary is pronounced 7aywtha and he took care in providing the mark so as to distinguish it from ܚܲܝܘܼܬ݂ܵܐ 7ayyutha “life”. Also, the masculine form is just the absolute form of this word ܚܲܝܘܵܐ. So I think this is where the problem comes from Shuraya (talk) 05:09, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure I can say much about the traditional equivalence of sukoon, what I can say is that in modern contexts it's used to mark silent consonants. E.g. 1 ܐ݇ܚܹܪ݇ܢܵܐ means theres no alap or resh pronounced, 2 ܐ݇ܟ݂ܵܠ݇ܪܲܡܫܵܐ there is no lamad pronounced, 3

Not sure if im explaining it clearly enough but when there is a clash of vowels and consonants together the vowels tend to collapse such as the "aw" in "yawma" tends to be pronounced like "o" as "yoma". Or the "iw" in "qariwta" tends to be pronounced like "u" as "qaruta". Presumably this word is a clash of both.

As for the masculine form, it may be from the absolute form reinterpreted as the masculine emphatic since the two are pretty much from the same construction. Antonklroberts (talk) 01:33, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, in modern eastern orthography the ܒ݇ mark is used to mark silent letters but I’m saying that traditionally and in dictionaries, at least those following traditional orthography like Audo’s, it marks that there is no vowel after. I’m aware of the shift from aw -> o, ay -> e, but I’d like to know where you got the pronunciation of this word in modern Assyrian, as well as the masculine form, because I think there’s been a misunderstanding Shuraya (talk) 02:54, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Once again not sure about Audo's but I use the Bailis Shamun dictionary. As for the pronunicaiton of this word although hayvan is still quite prevalent, for a while now it's become quite common for Urmijnaye to adopt the khota pronunciation inline with the rest of the aw/ay shifts. Antonklroberts (talk) 03:50, 7 August 2023 (UTC)