Talk:忍坂

Etymologies of 忍坂

The page here has three etymologies listed, but they are all the same etymology, simply listing alternate pronunciations. Can't these be collapsed? -- Eiríkr Útlendi | Tala við mig 21:41, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

If it's a simple pronunciation variation, just remove the Etymology headings and make sure there is separate heading for each pronunciation like the following. My question is, do all three refer to the same region, or different regions with Sakurai? Phonetic changes of a word depending on the pronunciations of syllables around it should not be included in a dictionary (though they could be briefly mentioned in the Usage Notes section) Jamesjiao → ^{T ◊ C} 22:11, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you James, it does appear that all three are simply different labels for the same place. The Japanese Wikipedia article on Sakurai-shi uses the spelling 忍阪, which someone's already added as an alternate. -- Eiríkr Útlendi | Tala við mig 23:06, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

OK, maybe we could use a heuristic such as picking a pronunciation that is used most widely when the place name is written by itself (as opposed to in a sentence where its pronunciation could be influenced by those around it). Make that the dictionary pronunciation and note its variations in the Usage Notes section. How does that sound? Jamesjiao → ^{T ◊ C} 23:14, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That's fine by me, but for Japanese, kanji-only headings contain no explicit pronunciation information on the one hand, and on the other, the oshisaka > ossaka > osaka pronunciation shift in this example doesn't depend on the word's location in the sentence, so far as I understand it (also, 忍坂 and 忍阪 are homophones in Japanese). Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you? If you have a clear idea for reorganizing the entry, give it a shot.  :) -- Eiríkr Útlendi | Tala við mig 23:27, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

I think what you've done is good. I made some minor changes. Jamesjiao → ^{T ◊ C} 23:38, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Etymology

Etymology here

Proper noun

忍坂(おしさか) • (Oshisaka) 

1. a geographical region within Sakurai, Japan
   • c. 5-6th century: Suda Hachiman Jinja Bronze Mirror

     癸未年八月日十大王年男弟王在意柴沙加宮時斯麻念長寿遣開中費直穢人今州利二人等取白上同二百旱作此竟

忍坂(おさか) • (Osaka) 

1. a geographical region within Sakurai, Japan
   • 712: Kojiki (page 158)

     意佐加能 意富牟盧夜爾 比登佐波爾 岐伊理袁理 比登佐波爾 伊理袁理登母 美都美都斯 久米能古賀 久夫都都伊 伊斯都都伊母知 宇知弖斯夜麻牟 美都美都斯 久米能古良賀 久夫都都伊 伊斯都都伊母知 伊麻宇多婆余良斯

   • 720: Nihon Shoki (page 205)

     於佐箇廼、於朋務露夜珥、比苔瑳破而、異離烏利苔毛、比苔瑳破而、枳伊離烏利苔毛、瀰都瀰都志、倶梅能固邏餓、句鶩都都伊、異志都都伊毛智、于智弖之夜莽務

   • 927: Engishiki (Kojiki, Norito page 392)

     山口坐皇神等能前爾白久、飛鳥・石寸・忍坂・長谷・畝火・耳无登、御名者白弖 [...]

忍(おっ)坂(さか) • (Ossaka) 

1. a geographical region within Sakurai, Japan