Talk:渦巻銀河

Yomi type for 河

@Poketalker, in the term 銀河, the が reading for 河 is the goon as-is. The Sakura Paris dictionary UI is quite helpful, allowing us to look for all NKD compounds that end in 河, as at https://sakura-paris.org/dict/%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E5%9B%BD%E8%AA%9E%E5%A4%A7%E8%BE%9E%E5%85%B8/suffix/%E6%B2%B3. We can then search on the page for 「‐が【」 to find all those listed that use 河 with a reading of が. This nets us:

• 愛河 (aiga) - cited to 759 in the MYS
• 一河 (ichiga) - cited to 1223
• 運河 (unga) - cited to 1500
• Eitei-ga (Eitei-ga) - no cite, the Japanese reading of a Chinese river name
• 海河 (kaiga) - cited to 1603 in the Nippo Jisho
• 禁河 (kinga) - cited to 969
• 銀河 (ginga) - cited to 751
• 懸河 (kenga) - cited to 1060
• 江河 (kōga, kōka) - cited to 759 in the MYS
• 交河 (Kōga) - no cite, the Japanese reading of a Chinese river name
• 洪河 (kōga) - cited to the early 1200s in the Heike Monogatari
• 黄河 (Kōga) - no cite, the Japanese reading of a Chinese river name
• 小河 (shōga) - cited to 1430
• 星河 (seiga, seika) - cited to 1018
• 大河 (taiga) - cited to 1060
• 長河 (chōga) - cited to 751, same Kafūsō document as for 銀河
• 天河 (tenga) - cited to 892
• 二河 (niga) - cited to 1430
• 尼連禅河 (Nirenzen-ga) - cited to 1084-1094
• 跋提河 (Batsudai-ga) - cited to 1060
• 氷河 (hyōga) - cited to 1458
• 馮河 (hyōga) - cited to 1868
• 遼河 (Ryōga) - no cite, the Japanese reading of a Chinese river name
• 淮河 (Waiga) - no cite, the Japanese reading of a Chinese river name

24 hits. Of these, 5 are Chinese river names with no date of first citation that I can find. For another 5, the reading of the first kanji ends in -n, raising the possibility of rendaku. Even omitting these, we have 14 left where the -ga does not follow -n, making rendaku unlikely, such that we must accept that -ga is a valid and unshifted reading of 河 in compounds.

If we then search on the page for 「‐か【」 to find all those listed that use 河 with a reading of か, we find 9 hits:

• 渭河 (ika) - no cite
• 決河 (kekka) - cited to 1477
• 航河 (kōka) - no cite
• 山河 (sanka, sanga) - cited to 835
• 沙河 (Shaka) - no cite, the Japanese reading of a Chinese river name
• 葬頭河・三途河 (Shōzu-ka, Shōzu-ga) - cited to 1717
• 三途河・葬頭河 (Sōzu-ka, Sōzu-ga) - cited to 1717
• 渡河 (toka) - cited to 1231
• 汴河 (Benka) - no cite, the Japanese reading of a Chinese river name

All told, が is the more common reading. Given the data above, and given the early 751 date of first citation for 銀河, it really looks to me like the が reading in 銀河 is just the regular goon, and not the kan'on + rendaku. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 05:49, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Would disagree on the grounds that the 河 "affix" entry of the digital Daijisen (mentioned in the edit summary) has that same ginga on it among most of the entries you listed above, no surprise there, implying the "kan'on + rendaku" case most of the time. Else, why isn't there the supposed corresponding goon が affix on there?

Checking the old Weblio for the Daijirin entry using Wayback Machine, it's ambiguous, using both ka and ga without mention of Wu or Han-sound reading:

【河】 ［音］ カ ・ガ
　　　① かわ。 「《カ》河口・河床・河伯」 「《ガ》運河・山河・大河・氷河」
　　　② もと、中国の黄河のこと。 「河南・河北」
　　　③ 天の川。銀河。 「河漢」
　　　④ 「河内（かわち）国」の略。 「河州」

① River: (ka) estuary (kakō), riverbed (kashō), river god (kahaku); (ga) river canal/waterway (unga), mountain(s) and river(s) (sanka/sanga), large river (taiga), glacier (hyōga)
　　② Archaic term for the Yellow River: Henan (Kanan), Hebei (Kahoku)
　　③ Galaxy: Milky Way/Yellow and Han rivers (Kahan)
　　④ Abbreviation of Kawachi province (Kashū)

Guess that which borrowing is which has to be done on a case-by-case basis then... ～ POKéTalker（＝◉＝） 06:47, 21 January 2024 (UTC)