Talk:菽

菽 (shū) pronunciation

Discussion moved from User talk:KevinUp.

@Justinrleung, KevinUp Any thoughts about my edit regarding the Mandarin pronunciation of 菽? --Geographyinitiative (talk) 10:39, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

@Geographyinitiative: I think { CN, TW } and { std_CN, TW } is basically the same thing. The "standard" label is only added if a "variant" pronunciation also exists. @Wyang, Justinrleung: Seems like there are up to 12 entries in Module:zh/data/cmn-tag that are written as { std_CN, std_TW } instead of { CN, TW }. Is there a difference between the two? KevinUp (talk) 13:19, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

@KevinUp: The edit that I made is intending to point out that the mainland Shenyinbiao has given an official pronunciation for 菽 which is supported in authoritative dictionaries (《普通话异读词审音表》1987 p39; 普通話异讀詞审音表初稿(第三編)《文字改革》月刊1962年12月号85期 pages 2 & 6 现代汉语词典7 p1211 现代汉语规范词典3 p1219 辞海6 p2091) whereas the Taiwan Duoyin Shendingbiao hasn't given a standard pronunciation for 菽 (I think). However, Taiwan's authoritative dictionaries do have a pronunciation different from the 'standard in Mainland' pronuncation (國語一字多音審訂表 （初稿）page 101 http://dict.concised.moe.edu.tw/cgi-bin/jbdic/gsweb.cgi?o=djbdic&searchid=W00000035372 http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/cgi-bin/cbdic/gsweb.cgi?o=dcbdic&searchid=W00000009091) I don't see this an as 'standard in Taiwan' situation but instead merely as a pronunciation used in 'Taiwan'. Just because there is a standard pronunciation for a given character in either mainland China or Taiwan does not mean that there is a standard pronunciation in the other area. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 13:36, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

@Geographyinitiative: 菽 is given as ㄕㄨ´ in 國語一字多音審訂表 (p. 316 in ROC 88 and p. 101 in ROC 101 chugao)... I guess you missed it? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 14:26, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: I see it. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 14:39, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

@Geographyinitiative, KevinUp: I think we should probably just leave it as { CN, TW } unless the standards and actual usage in the respective regions differ. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 14:46, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

I agree too. If there is only one pronunciation in either CN or TW, the standard label is not needed. I have renamed all instances of { std_CN, std_TW } as { CN, TW } in this edit. KevinUp (talk) 15:37, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

@Justinrleung, KevinUp: I am okay with the current situation. However, I would like to point out that I believe that 菽 qualifies for Justin's statement "I think we should probably just leave it as { CN, TW } unless the standards and actual usage in the respective regions differ."　The standards are: Mainland- shu1:《普通话异读词审音表》1987 p39; 普通話异讀詞审音表初稿(第三編)《文字改革》月刊1962年12月号85期 pages 2 & 6 Taiwan- shu2: 國語一字多音審訂表 (p. 316 in ROC 88 and p. 101 in ROC 101 chugao)　The actual usage (as represented in authoritative dictionaries) are: Mainland- shu1: 现代汉语词典7 p1211 现代汉语规范词典3 p1219 辞海6 p2091 Taiwan- shu2: http://dict.concised.moe.edu.tw/cgi-bin/jbdic/gsweb.cgi?o=djbdic&searchid=W00000035372 http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/cgi-bin/cbdic/gsweb.cgi?o=dcbdic&searchid=W00000009091 --Geographyinitiative (talk) 23:29, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

@Geographyinitiative: By "actual usage", I didn't mean dictionaries, but actual real life usage. Of course, we can include dictionaries in the list, but I'd say they're in a way a secondary standard. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 00:53, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

I understand what you mean about 'actual usage'. I want to say that I feel like I wasn't able to express my point clearly here- but anyway, it doesn't matter because I'm okay with the way things are now. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 02:00, 5 December 2018 (UTC)