Talk:香

How on earth does this belong on the English wiktionary? 68.38.181.217 20:32, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

The English Wiktionary attempts to describe all words and characters in all languages with an English definition. sewnmouthsecret 20:34, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Yale Pronunciation in Cantonese

@Justinrleung Hey I was listening to some people speaking Cantonese, and I think it's still worth putting "high falling tone" in the Cantonese pronunciation in the entries here. Like in 香, where the Yale romanization is hèung in my dictionary, and not hēung as in this entry right now. I know the high falling tone is slowly disappearing, but I think it's still worth putting in this dictionary. What do you think? --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 10:11, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

@Mar vin kaiser: I'm not sure if we can find enough sources for us to actually distinguish 53 from 55. Most non-Yale dictionaries do not make this distinction. To me, the two are in free variation, and it's not easily predictable. It's an interesting distinction, but I don't think it's practical. @Wyang, Suzukaze-c, Kc kennylau, any thoughts? — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 11:18, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

@Justinrleung: I have no idea which word is 53 and which one is 55. I use 55 everytime. --kc_kennylau (talk) 11:22, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

@Justinrleung I feel that making the note of high level/high falling more obvious could be good, but systematically differentiating the two would be very difficult. Wyang (talk) 11:32, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

@Justinrleung, Mar vin kaiser, Kc kennylau, Wyang Different meanings of 香 have different tones. For the nine definitions listed special:permalink/50388762#Definitions, summary:

1. heung53 or hèung only: definitions 1,2,4(as in 吃香),5,9
2. heung55 or hēung only: definition 6 (i.e. only joss sticks can be pronounced 55)

It is acceptable to use either 55 or 53 tone in some other words, but in all the aforementioned cases of 香, swapping the tone would sound very awkward or cause confusion. Definitions 3(as in 吃得香,睡得香),7,8(as in 香一個) should be mandarin only and do not apply to Cantonese, so there's no clue on how these would be pronounced in Canto. Additionally, Fragrant Hills 香山 in Beijing and spearmint 香花菜 would be most preferably 55, even though they are not related to joss sticks. I think it's because the tone of 山 and 花 make it more natural to pronounce the preceding character 55. (Note: In these two cases, both 55 and 53 work for 山 and 花, but I prefer 53 for both.)

I'm a Canton native, born in the 90s and raised there.--Roy17 (talk) 20:53, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

@Roy17: Thanks for your input! It's interesting to know that young people from Guangzhou still make the distinction between 55 and 53. For most people in Hong Kong, they're definitely merged into 55. The problem is that most modern Cantonese dictionaries don't make the distinction, even those from Guangzhou, like 广州话正音字典. We can probably add these in case by case, but it may be hard to sustain. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 06:24, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

I think it'll be nice to preserve the hēung vs hèung distinction where we have enough information to make the call. Unfortunately I speak Hong Kong Cantonese so the difference between high flat and high falling is not semantic for me. If Roy or Mar wants to do it I won't object. It would be best to add that as a note, like the Teochew or Taiwanese entries. Deryck Chan (talk) 11:49, 5 December 2018 (UTC)