Talk:Rio Grande River

RFD discussion: June 2021–February 2022

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for deletion (permalink).

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Rio Grande River

SoP for a river name; see Rio Grande for the river. ·~ dictátor·mundꟾ 18:12, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Redirect or delete like Talk:Jordan River, Talk:Thames River. - -sche (discuss) 02:17, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

In this case "rio" means "river", so adding "River" is superfluous. I won't object to its removal. Rio Grande Valley is different, that can remain. DonnanZ (talk) 10:13, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

@Donnanz: If "Rio Grande River" is attestable, doesn't that make it something of a pleonasm, like ATM machine? bd2412 T 06:32, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

@BD2412: TBH, I don't know. If someone can come up with some durable quotations, maybe... DonnanZ (talk) 07:07, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Quotations are readily found:

• National Reclamation Association, Proceedings of the Annual Meeting (1948), p. 129: Depletion of normal stream flow of the Rio Grande River has been on the increase for the past three years and during 1948 had reached an all time low.
• Cynthia Westcott, The Gardener's Bug Book (1964), p. 120: R. praetexus is found inland from Canada to the Rio Grande River and is probably the common species in northern Florida.
• Paul T. Kostecki, ‎Edward J. Calabrese, ‎Christopher P. L. Barkan, Principles and Practices for Diesel Contaminated Soils (1994), p. 115: The yard lies within the 100 year flood plain of the Rio Grande River and is underlain by more than 100 feet of alluvium.
• L. L. Foster, ‎Barbara J. Rozek, Forgotten Texas Census: First Annual Report of the Agricultural Bureau of the Department of Agriculture, Insurance, Statistics, and History, 1887-88, (2001), p. 65: The city of El Paso is situated on the Rio Grande River, and is 712 miles from Austin.
• Jim Maccracken, Rio Grande County Colorado Fishing & Floating Guide Book (2016), p. 526: The South Fork of the Rio Grande River is a fairly large tributary of the Rio Grande River and is located in eastern Mineral and Western Rio Grande Counties at an southwest of Southfork.

There could be a typo in "at an southwest of Southfork". DonnanZ (talk) 11:25, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

I have double-checked, and the error is in the original. bd2412 T 16:42, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

OK, it was obviously overlooked by the proofreader... DonnanZ (talk) 19:22, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

• Redirect. I tend to think of this almost as a common misspelling, and would be inclined to redirect to Rio Grande with a usage note to the effect that sometimes people errantly refer to the river as the Rio Grande River despite the name already meaning "Grand River". bd2412 T 02:49, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

  @BD2412: I'm not always in favour of redirects without explanation; where would the usage note go? Would it create a precedent to change the definition to "A [[pleonasm]] of Rio Grande" ? (although users may not realise what a pleonasm is, it is a redirect in effect). Then you could, if you want, add quotes (to Rio Grande River) to your heart's content. DonnanZ (talk) 08:17, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

  I think either would be acceptable. If a usage note is included in Rio Grande, it would go after the "Proper noun" header and say that the river is sometimes incorrectly referred to as "Rio Grande River", a pleonasm. bd2412 T 16:48, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Delete. Imetsia (talk) 15:39, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Check out Yellow River. That entry is likely to withstand the process here if ever applied to it since we never call that river "the Yellow". We would say "the Jordan" or "the Thames" or "the Yangtze". Unfamiliar rivers like Prahova River, Dâmbovița River, and Bistrița River (see above) are in uncertain waters- can you say "the Prahova"? --Geographyinitiative (talk) 17:26, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Generally we can get away with omitting river, bearing in mind that the Irish and Brits tend to say "River X" and other nationalities say "X River". Yes, Yellow River makes sense, as does Red River (which needs expansion) and White River, which includes communities with the name, similarly with Salmon River. Communities with "River" in their name can be a deciding factor for river entries - I feel it is better to include the full name for all rivers and communities with that particular name. DonnanZ (talk) 20:53, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

From the above it can be deduced that any river name that employs an adjective is better entered in full, another example is Sandy River. A quirk here is that it is less likely for anyone to say "River Yellow" or "River Sandy". Rio Grande, being from Spanish, is an exception of course! DonnanZ (talk) 12:30, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Weak delete. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 18:47, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Redirect to Rio Grande with note under Etymology section explaining that "the Rio Grande River" may be seen occasionally. OK, I added said note to wt:Rio Grande - this should be one of the very few rivers that need such an explanation. Cheers, 12:21, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

I agree with the added note and the rationale, and would recommend that any redirect be a section-redirect to the Etymology section. bd2412 T 00:47, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Delete or redirect. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 20:27, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

RFD-resolved by redirecting, without prejudice to renomination of the redirect page for deletion. Vox Sciurorum (talk) 14:34, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Hey @Vox Sciurorum (Voice of the Squirrels): check out my new solution here and @ Rio Grande. It's based on my thoughts concerning ATM machine, PIN number, & Bohai Sea-- see Talk:Bohai Sea. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 09:30, 8 May 2022 (UTC) (modified)