Talk:Shaanxi

Gwoyeu Romatzyh-based spelling

Is there a source for this claim? It seems that Sin Wenz also uses two a's: Shaansi. —suzukaze (t・c) 23:49, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

I like what you have done so far, showing that the "xi" is Hanyu Pinyin and that the "Shaan" is 'something else'. Here are some comments and questions I have in the same vein:

The etymology presented is plausible and interesting. However, that is 100% irrelevant. I don't want to know 'what it looks like'. I want to answer the question: Can this etymology be sourced? If the answer is no, then I want to find when this word was first used, who implemented this word, etc. Preliminary investigation seems to indicate that the word was created at the same time Hanyu Pinyin began more widespread usage around 1979. I believe there may be an official PRC document from that period (or earlier) that would tell us "the answer": why they chose Shaanxi. That's what I want. Speculation is interesting and useful but irrelevant to whatever that official fact/rationale is. Ground us in fact rather than speculation. Who made the decision to create this word? Everybody loves to recite facts about the Sin Wenz etc. That is useful background knowledge but is secondary to whatever the actual facts of how the decision to use 'Shaanxi' was made is (unless the actual decision directly references Sin Wenz etc.) If Wiktionary can give a direct, clear, specific answer for this, it would be a major 'conquest', because usually 'Shaanxi' is explained with a bunch of handwaving. Instead of handwaving, let's find "the document" or whatever it is where they say "Oh yeah, we're going to use Shaanxi as the spelling because x. Sincerely, Party Chief Wu Ming, Shaanxi". --Geographyinitiative (talk) 18:30, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

@Geographyinitiative Ye, but no one has resolved the {{citation needed}} I left on the en.wp page for Shaanxi, and Internet randos just regurgitate the GR theory :))) —Suzukaze-c (talk) 01:37, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Sin Wenz was a CPC invention and the precedent of the CPC's Hanyu Pinyin, and all remnants of GR are located in Taiwan. It's boggling that no one else has questioned this "GR theory" from god-knows-where. —Suzukaze-c (talk) 01:41, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

The en.WP page for GR now cites a person from a PRC state institute who says that it's from GR in 2016, but NGL I think it's citogenesis.

The claim first appears on en.WP in 2006 (Shaanxi) - 2007 (GR) without citation. —Suzukaze-c (talk) 02:02, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Great work. Wiktionary is better than citogenesis- facts only please. High five. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 23:05, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

I looked at what was available on Hathitrust and just found duplicates of an article describing Pinyin tonal spelling for telegrams (a ax aa ah: Chao Yuen-ren laughs in his grave), Shaanxi. There was a book on 'research into spelling of China's placenames' that had an entire chapter on 'homograph and homophone place names' yet did *not* mention Shaanxi (why???). —Suzukaze-c (talk) 22:16, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Alternative Forms & Synonyms

Shaan-hsi (Variant - V)

Shaan-hsi Sheng (Variant - V)

Shen-hsi (Variant - V)

Shen-hsi Sheng (Variant - V)

Shensi Province (Variant - V)

[1]

--Geographyinitiative (talk) 23:49, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

I can't really tell if Shensi is an alternate form or synonym of Shaanxi. In the theory I am going on, alternate forms are usually synonyms that attempt to convey the same base sound. It seems like Shen-hsi and Shensi are implying that 陝 can be read as ㄕㄣ or something similar. If the forms Shen-hsi and Shensi do imply a variant reading for 陝 (and I am assuming they do), then I would say these two are synonyms of Shaanxi instead of alternative forms. The argument the other way would mean that the words Shen-hsi and Shensi are attempting to convey the same sound as Shaanxi. It's possible "e" is a dummy stand-in to differentiate from the other Shanxi. Support for this view would be that there's only one Fanqie on ctext.org for the character 陝- Fanqie: 失冉 (《廣韻·上聲·琰·陝》) [2]. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 18:46, 18 December 2020 (UTC) (modified)

An example of "Shênsi" can be seen here: p.12 --Geographyinitiative (talk) 09:11, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Guanzhuang - Guaanzhuang

"cannot be observed elsewhere" technically wrong; although Guaanzhuang is obviously inspired by Shaanxi —Fish bowl (talk) 02:24, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

FYI, the photo of 管庄 Station uploaded a few days ago shows Guǎnzhuang instead of Guaanzhuang. --2607:FB90:5AB5:5ABA:7D43:7828:625C:48C5 14:37, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Xensi, Shensi, Shenhsi and Shen-hsi

(Kind of summarizing/expanding on above comments) These four words (likely plus some other variants) are English language names for Shaanxi.
My issue: there's an 'e' in them, but 陝 is pronounced as ㄕㄢˇ.
My question: But where'd they get that 'e' from though?
My hypotheses:
(1) OBSCURE MANDARIN VARIANT maybe there's another reading for 陝 (but I don't see it on ctext.org, so where is it?? - 失冉切，音閃 [3])
(2) TRADITION maybe starting with Ricci or somebody, everybody decided to switch in an 'e' here so that Shaanxi and Shanxi wouldn't get confused, and it just got baked into the system, such that Encyclopedia Brittanica implies Shen-hsi is the pure Wade-Giles name. [4]
(3) NON-MANDARIN ORIGIN maybe there's an alternative origin for the 'e' outside of Standard Mandarin- Gan [5]
--Geographyinitiative (talk) 17:43, 1 March 2022 (UTC)