Talk:abortie

@Xbypass Are you sure that Indonesian borrowed this from Dutch? It really is quite a rare word in Dutch; the usual term is abortus or abortus provocatus. Couldn't English or Latin be more plausible sources? ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 18:02, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

@Lingo Bingo Dingo I think Dutch is more plausible as source than English or Latin as it is fulfil regular borrowing rule Dutch -tie (pronounced as /tsi/, /si/) into Indonesian -si (pronounced as /si/) which preserved the pronunciation. While it is quite a rare word in Dutch (now), was it quite rare in Dutch before 1950 when Dutch literature was the primary references in Indonesia for Science and Law? As far as I know, most technical terms in Science and Law were introduced into Indonesian in the Dutch colonial period. (Most of Indonesian technical loanwords is explained better in terms of pronunciation and meaning, if it is a loanword from Dutch rather than Latin or English.) _Xbypass (talk) 01:37, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

I get under 150 results in total on Delpher (for the singular), so it was rare at all times, but attestations do concentrate in the period 1890 to 1970. There are few attestations for newspapers published in Indonesia or the Dutch East Indies. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 17:28, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

@Lingo Bingo Dingo While it is rare, but the attestations do concentrate in the period 1890 to 1970 and in technical/specialised references, such as Het ontstaan der soorten door natuurlijke teeltkeus, of het bewaard blijven van bevoorrechte rassen in den strijd om het bestaan which is translation of Charles Darwin's On the origin of species by means of natural selection or the preservation of favored races in the struggle for life. The usage of term in a such important scientific literature implied that the word while it is not common in mass or public, it was common in scientific language, so it is plausible the loanword process was happened through small circle of academia and diffused into common use. The similar phenomenon is scientific English or Academic English. _Xbypass (talk) 03:24, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

@Xbypass I don't think it was really common in general scientific language esxcept for maybe one subdiscipline, but I think I understand what happened. The translator of On the Origin of Species used abortie (which already existed marginally) to render English abortion. As a result other early texts on genetics in Dutch also used abortie and Indonesian either got aborsi directly from the translation of On the Origin of Species or maybe from other texts. So yes, I think there's a plausible context for borrowing from Dutch now. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 17:39, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

@Lingo Bingo Dingo FYI, the Afrikaans use aborsie (“abortion”) as Afrikaans use spelling that expresses pronunciation. It is noted for Afrikaans that words ending in ⟨tie⟩ in Dutch are often pronounced as [si] particularly in Flanders. _Xbypass (talk) 01:55, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I'm aware. For Afrikaans borrowing or influence from English is also a possibility; there's a lot of English lexical influence on Afrikaans. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 17:28, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

@Lingo Bingo Dingo The same idea can be applied in Indonesia too as there is guideline for loanword creation (Pedoman Umum Pembentukan Istilah) in Indonesian which regularised loanword and treated English loanwords as if they were loanwords from Dutch. This newer English loanwords have no cognate with similar meaning in Dutch. _Xbypass (talk) 03:24, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what I thought happened with aborsi, but now I think you're correct about a borrowing into Indonesian from Dutch. In Dutch the French or English ending -tion is practically always changed to -tie. ←₰-→ Lingo ^Bingo _Dingo (talk) 17:39, 10 March 2021 (UTC)