Talk:afstraffing
Latest comment: 3 years ago by Lingo Bingo Dingo in topic RFV discussion: July 2020–March 2021
The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for verification (permalink).
This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.
Dutch, RFV-sense of "a memorable lesson". An extremely weird definition (probably a Verboism); a severe punishment or beatdown can certainly be a memorable lesson, but I do not think that can be attested as a denotation. As an aside, I think we could perhaps use a literal sense for "beating". ←₰-→ Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 13:15, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
- The figurative use seen here, a humiliating defeat, fits the contested definition better than “punishment” or “beatdown”. (The Dutch phrase “Na deze afstraffing“ here translates English “Soundly thrashed”.) Note that the figurative sense of “defeat” is shared by English beating (as a noun). Often the meaning is merely a (purely verbal) reprimand, like here and here, a figurative sense shared by English castigation. --Lambiam 20:49, 19 July 2020 (UTC)
- @Lambiam I'm not sure I find the current definition more enlightening than the other ones taken figuratively (for one, a teacher taking schoolchildren to an amusement park would surely be a memorable lesson, but absolutely not an afstraffing), but nevermind that. What do you think replacing the Verbo definition with "castigation (a humiliating or sobering experience)", perhaps to be merged with definition 3?
←₰-→Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 13:06, 12 March 2021 (UTC)- I think that for sense 1, “stern” can be a better word than “severe”, and from the uses I do not get the sense that retribution is more commonly the aim than it is for punishment in general. I think the easiest is to just replace the definition of sense 2 by “castigation”; when given in the form of a verbal dressing-down, it does not have the connotation of defeat of sense 3. --Lambiam 15:48, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
- Hmm, to me afstraffing compared to straf or bestraffing does suggest a more brutal if not retributive punishing. I'm not entirely sure how to express it.
←₰-→Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 17:39, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
- Hmm, to me afstraffing compared to straf or bestraffing does suggest a more brutal if not retributive punishing. I'm not entirely sure how to express it.
- I think that for sense 1, “stern” can be a better word than “severe”, and from the uses I do not get the sense that retribution is more commonly the aim than it is for punishment in general. I think the easiest is to just replace the definition of sense 2 by “castigation”; when given in the form of a verbal dressing-down, it does not have the connotation of defeat of sense 3. --Lambiam 15:48, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
- @Lambiam I'm not sure I find the current definition more enlightening than the other ones taken figuratively (for one, a teacher taking schoolchildren to an amusement park would surely be a memorable lesson, but absolutely not an afstraffing), but nevermind that. What do you think replacing the Verbo definition with "castigation (a humiliating or sobering experience)", perhaps to be merged with definition 3?
- RFV resolved.
←₰-→Lingo Bingo Dingo (talk) 17:39, 12 March 2021 (UTC)