Talk:canutus

Attested

@Nicodene First attestation? Is this an example of a vulgarism where *-utus becomes productive (like *saputus, *habutus)? Kwékwlos (talk) 18:28, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

@Kwékwlos Per Lewis & Short, attested in the Philoxenus Glossary, which was apparently composed 'in the latter part of the sixth century'. In any case, it is indeed a useful example of the productive Late Latin -ūtus. Nicodene (talk) 19:16, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Any other Late Latin verb that uses -utus from bases not derived from -v verbs? Kwékwlos (talk) 19:21, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Also, would Late Latin canutus be the supine of caneo? Kwékwlos (talk) 19:22, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

@Kwékwlos There is cornutus to consider, however that is simply a case of cornū (“horn”, with long final u) + -tus (“having, provided with”). This is attested as far back as Varro, well before the Late Latin period. I imagine it served as one of the models for the later rise of a fully productive/independent -ūtus. A similar example is verutus < verū + -tus.

I don't have many more attested examples of 'independent'/productive Late Latin -utus to provide. Perhaps just villutus, which doesn't have an entry yet.

I don't think canutus is based on the verb that you have mentioned for two reasons: 1, it is first attested, per Lewis & Short, in the same aforementioned Philoxenus Glossary, so quite late, in a period when we know independent -utus was already active. 2- Every Classical case of verbal -ūtus comes from a verb ending in -uo(r) or -vo, as in acuo, arguo, futuo, iuvo, loquor, polluo, minuo, statuo, sequor, solvo, suo, tribuo, volvo. (Also the many prefixed compounds that derive from these.) Notably, caneo is not such a verb.

Another type of formation (dating to Classical times) is represented by astutus, hirsutus, and versutus (apparently from astus/hirsus/versus + -utus). Nicodene (talk) 19:47, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Well, this should be a case where canutus is a secondary supine of caneo in much the same way as *saputus is the supine of *sapeo. Kwékwlos (talk) 09:27, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

If you can find any evidence of canutus (or any Romance descendant thereof) actually being used as a supine or participle for that verb. Nicodene (talk) 11:29, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Looks like caneo didn't survive into Romance at all. But if one descendant did (like French), it would have undoubtedly used a descendant of -utus for their supine. Kwékwlos (talk) 11:43, 11 March 2023 (UTC)