Talk:cluichigidir

RFM discussion: September 2016–March 2017

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for moves, mergers and splits (permalink).

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cluichigidir to cluichigedar

This seems to be the actually attested form, as given by DIL and our own inflection table. Also, @Angr is the imperfect form in the table of Old Irish date? —CodeCat 22:18, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Cluichigidir is the lemma form; we usually create entries under the lemma form even when it doesn't happen to be attested, don't we? I'm pretty sure that's what we do for Gothic, for example. As for the imperfect form, I'm not sure, but nothing in that quote looks very late, and the word "ōcbothae" looks pretty archaic. This page says "The earliest stratum of [O'Mulconry's glossary] may date back to the second half of the 7th or first half of the 8th century", which is definitely Old Irish. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 12:20, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Not moved, per OI lemmatisation practices. —Μετάknowledge^{discuss/deeds} 08:53, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

@CodeCat, Angr, Metaknowledge: Shouldn't cluichigedar get a {{form of}} entry regardless? — I.S.M.E.T.A. 16:02, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Yes, it could. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 16:03, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

@Angr: Is this OK (except for rel; I don't know what rel. means in the context of cluichigidir's conjugation table)? — I.S.M.E.T.A. 16:20, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

"Relative", just as the page you linked to says. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 16:26, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

@Angr: Sorry; I'd never heard of a relative verb form before. BTW, what does that dot preceding cluichigedar signify? — I.S.M.E.T.A. 16:29, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

This use-example should avoid future nescience. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 16:37, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Yeah, Old Irish (and to some extent Modern Irish) has separate verb forms used in relative clauses. The dot is the conventional way of indicating a conjunct or prototonic verb form. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 17:03, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

@Aɴɢʀ: Fascinating! Thanks for the explanations. Is there a reason we use the term “relative”, rather than “dependent” for these verb forms? — I.S.M.E.T.A. 18:58, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

I don't think the term "dependent" is used for Old Irish at all. It's used for Modern Irish, but dependent forms are not necessarily the same as relative forms. —Aɴɢʀ (talk) 22:31, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

@Aɴɢʀ: OK, thanks. — I.S.M.E.T.A. 08:33, 6 March 2017 (UTC)