Talk:dìn

RFV discussion: June–July 2022

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dìn

Mandarin. Supposedly the pinyin of 𨈖, but 漢語大字典 gives zhèn. Theknightwho (talk) 13:21, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Pinging @Octahedron80 who made the entry. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 16:38, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

I imported data from Unihan that was from the first edition of HYDZD (volume 6, page 3808, character 5). Your image is clearly not from the same book. But (1) the later editions might fix error found in the first edition, or (2) Unihan might have error at first. I cannot say what is right. It just needs more evidences and we can make a note at 𨈖. --Octahedron80 (talk) 17:39, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

@Octahedron80: Thanks. @Theknightwho, I think it can be kept as an alternative pronunciation for 𨈖. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 22:06, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Hmm - Unicode have a pretty disastrous record pronunciation-wise, and this would be the only occurrence of the syllable "din" in existence. I'm leaning towards needing proof that it exists, rather than proof that it doesn't.

I've spotted that 全字庫 gives the reading dìng, which seems much more likely. Theknightwho (talk) 22:12, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

@Theknightwho: It's not a Unihan mistake, but taken from the first edition of 漢語大字典, as Octahedron80 has said. I've checked my copy of the first edition of 漢語大字典 to verify this. It is presumably based on the 當禁切 fanqie given in 《改併四聲篇海·身部》引《俗字背篇》. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 22:18, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

And it doesn't seem to be a mistake on the part of the first edition of 漢語大字典 because it appears again in the 中古音字表 index (p. 5247) in the first edition of 漢語大字典. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 22:22, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

I see - I had interpreted that to mean it was taken from Unihan on the knowledge that Unicode used the first edition of 漢語大字典 as their source (which still left the possibility that it was a Unicode mistake, as Octahedron80 also said). If it's actually in the 1st ed. of 漢語大字典, that's a different matter.

Now that you mention it, the 2nd ed. 漢語大字典 entry linked above also quotes the same fanqie, which is then followed by a source for zhèn. It's not clear why only one reading is given in pinyin. Theknightwho (talk) 22:40, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

@Theknightwho: I think they only give one pronunciation unless there are differences in meaning. They probably went with zhèn in the second edition because of the new piece of data and because it's a more direct pronunciation gloss; this pronunciation is possibly reconcilable with 當禁切, but the historical phonology is beyond what I know. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 22:47, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Makes sense. Fair enough. Theknightwho (talk) 14:10, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

• RFV resolved. — justin(r)leung _{{ (t...) | c=› }} 00:16, 26 July 2022 (UTC)