Talk:kin
Adjective or not?[edit]
I'm not sure how to classify the sense listed as adjective. I'm not sure I've ever seen it used as an adjective (kinfolk is a compound). I have seen kin to, which I gave as an example, but I don't see how that's different from "He was family to me" or "He was a friend to me" or any number of others, except that there's a slightly different connotation between "family to" (so close as to be like family) and "kin to" (actually related by blood). -dmh 04:43, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
- As an adjective, it means related and can be used the same way. They’re related to me. We’re related. They’re kin to me. We’re kin. It is most often used with the preposition to. —Stephen 23:16, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
- That does, however, seem like a noun: "it was meat and drink to me"; "he's a father to me"; "they are kin to me". Equinox ◑ 12:53, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
The Webster 1913 supplement has this, which I can't seem to attest: "kin, kine: (physics) The unit velocity in the CGS system; a velocity of one centimeter per second". Equinox ◑ 04:38, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
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Adjective. This doesn't meet the usual tests that would distinguish it from a noun. DCDuring (talk) 15:11, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
- Agreed. Unless it can be demonstrated that kin in the usex is a clipping of akin then it's a noun. Leasnam (talk) 16:08, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
- Yes, delete and probably wouldn't hurt to add a usex at the noun that shows this usage. — Mnemosientje (t · c) 16:10, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
- I'm not so sure. The first four dictionaries that I checked all list an adjective sense, and a couple also include a "kin to" example similar to ours. [1][2][3][4] Mihia (talk) 20:43, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
- The use in this sentence, ‘Chopin, “subtle-souled psychologist,” is more kin to Keats than Shelley, he is a greater artist than thinker.’,[5] indicates an adjective. --Lambiam 21:16, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
- You may be right. However, even in this pattern it could be interpreted as a noun; cf. "She is more mother to him than to her own children". Mihia (talk) 00:10, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
- Some faint evidence: The word “mother” is far more common than ”kin” (GBS 183M : 24.7M), yet “more mother to” is less common than “more kin to” (GBS 2,060 : 5,140). The Ngram Viewer gives a nice graphical representation. Expressed in proportions (assuming these counts are right): about 11 in a million uses of “mother” occur in a collocation “more mother to”, whereas about 208 in a million uses of “kin” occur in a collocation “more kin to”. --Lambiam 09:18, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
- Yes, I think you're right in this case. I guess I was just making a general point that "more" does not inevitably signify an adjective. Mihia (talk) 11:43, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
- Some faint evidence: The word “mother” is far more common than ”kin” (GBS 183M : 24.7M), yet “more mother to” is less common than “more kin to” (GBS 2,060 : 5,140). The Ngram Viewer gives a nice graphical representation. Expressed in proportions (assuming these counts are right): about 11 in a million uses of “mother” occur in a collocation “more mother to”, whereas about 208 in a million uses of “kin” occur in a collocation “more kin to”. --Lambiam 09:18, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
- You may be right. However, even in this pattern it could be interpreted as a noun; cf. "She is more mother to him than to her own children". Mihia (talk) 00:10, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
Keep - I would interpret such uses (e.g. "He is kin to Frank") as an adjective. It is in Century Dict as an adj, with etymology that says "partly from the noun" and "partly by apheresis from akin". - Sonofcawdrey (talk) 02:20, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
- Keep the adjective sense, per "is more kin to Keats than Shelley" and per the stats brought forward by Lambiam. There is also the WT:LEMMING principle (“kin”, in OneLook Dictionary Search.), which has lost a lot of its force via Wiktionary:Votes/pl-2018-12/Lemming principle into CFI. --Dan Polansky (talk) 11:35, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
- Weak keep: the citations are ambiguous (kin could be an adjective or it could be a noun), but the fact that so many other dictionaries (mentioned above) consider them adjectival is persuasive. - -sche (discuss) 09:41, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
- RFD kept: no consensus for deletion after a year. --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:01, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
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The sense "kind, sort, manner, way" is of dubious validity; it didn't survive past Early Middle English according to the OED and MED. Hazarasp (parlement · werkis) 00:56, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
RFV-failed Kiwima (talk) 22:35, 31 March 2022 (UTC)