Talk:not to mention

paralipsis

paralipsis: a rhetorical technique in which you emphasize a topic by saying in some way that you will not talk about it, e.g. by using the phrase "not to mention"
Microsoft® Encarta® 2009

--Backinstadiums (talk) 19:03, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

And this is not even to mention the matter of completely different non-Sinitic languages in the PRC

In my estimation, the situation surrounding topolectal speech usage in the PRC is far more complex. And this is not even to mention the matter of completely different non-Sinitic languages in the PRC --Backinstadiums (talk) 16:17, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Just ordinary ellipsis

How can we tell this can't also be a case of ordinary (grammatical/rhetorical) ellipsis? For instance, it seems to me that the sample sentence,

The city was already having staffing difficulties, not to mention having a three million dollar budget shortfall.

could readily be interpreted as an abbreviated way of saying

The city was already having staffing difficulties, which [foregoing statement] is not to mention having a three million dollar budget shortfall.

This hypothesis would carry more weight if there are some cases of the unellipted form that can be attested. (T.B.C. ...meanwhile it seems I have to create an entry for unellipted.)

—DIV (1.145.12.245 12:00, 7 April 2023 (UTC))

It's idiomatic though. Why would one mention something by saying "not to mention" it? It's not obvious that this would be a phrase. Equinox ◑ 12:01, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

It seems easy to explain to me.

"My cousin is the most kind-hearted person I've ever met, not to mention her great sense of humour and joie de vivre."

could be an ellipted version of

"My cousin is the most kind-hearted person I've ever met, which [foregoing statement] is not to mention her great sense of humour and joie de vivre."

and considered equivalent to

"My cousin is the most kind-hearted person I've ever met. And — while that might seem like high praise — I haven't yet even mentioned her great sense of humour and joie de vivre."

I'm not saying that such an interpretation of this phrase is assuredly correct. I'm just asking how one can so confidently say that such an interpretation cannot possibly be correct.

I don't deny that it's idiomatic. I'm contesting the characterisation of the speaker 'pretending' that they won't mention something, but then actually doing so. Certainly that could happen, and the more obvious form would be something like

"My cousin is the most kind-hearted person I've ever met, not to mention how sexy she is and her shapely figure."

standing for

"My cousin is the most kind-hearted person I've ever met. Given that she's my cousin, it would not be appropriate for me to mention how sexy she is, and so therefore I won't comment on her shapely figure."

At best it seems to me that the interpretation of not to mention is ambiguous.

—DIV (1.145.12.245 12:27, 7 April 2023 (UTC))

By the way, it is notable that this phrase is pretty much exclusively used after a preceding statement/clause where something relevant has been mentioned. For instance, the following generally doesn't happen:

*"G'day, Jim. Nice weather we're having. How've you been lately? Not to mention that I went to Corfu last summer and purchased a terrific watercolour painting."

—DIV (1.145.12.245 12:42, 7 April 2023 (UTC))

Yes, there are numerous examples that can be attested. The following are all from Google Scholar (https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q="which++is+not+to+mention"&btnG= ):

• "[…] and who often find in our pasts a number of experiences we might prefer to forget, from antipathy to zealots, assault to xenophobia—which is not to mention the […]."
• "In addition, he has contributed to numerous newspapers, magazines, conference reports, and more ephemeral publications, which is not to mention his frequent broadcast interviews […]."
• "Many key attributes are widely accepted; others remain contentious, which is not to mention the existence of, admittedly slight, regional differences of interpretation."
• " In terms of fatal injuries, the more accurate annual figure stands somewhere closer to 1,500 such deaths per annum [3], which is not to mention up to 50,000 deaths which occur each […]."

1.145.12.245 12:16, 7 April 2023 (UTC)