Talk:punctus

RFV discussion: February–May 2017

This entry has survived Wiktionary's verification process (permalink).

Please do not re-nominate for verification without comprehensive reasons for doing so.

---

punctus (genitive punctus, sense point)

From dictionaries:

• L&S: "punctus, ūs [...] II. A point: mundi, Plin. 2, 68, 68, § 174; cf. Isid. Orig. 11, 1."
• Georges: "Spät. Nbf. pūnctus, ī, m., Gromat. vet. 360, 29 u. 374, 11 13. Boëth. inst. arithm. 2, 30. Isid. orig. 1, 19, 3; 3, 12. no. 1 u. 6."
• Gaffiot: "punctus, i, m. c. punctum: Isid. 1, 19, 3"

Pliny the Elder's Natural History (e.g. here) contains "mundi puncto", Isidore's of Seville The Etymologies (or Origins) (e.g. here) contains "punctus oculi", and in New Latin it's also sometimes punctus, -i, m. in mathematics while other authors use punctum, -i, n.
Thus, it looks like L&S contains an error which was copied into the English wiktionary. -80.133.125.177 22:41, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

In Plinius' work it is puncto. However, in old texts it is sometimes cited as mundi punctus or rarely mundi punctûs and in old editions it sometimes appears as mundi punctus (old is usually before 1850). I added citations for boths, so it's somewhat cited. -80.133.123.15 04:16, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

RFC discussion: May 2018–August 2021

The following discussion has been moved from Wiktionary:Requests for cleanup (permalink).

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

---

punctus

The definition "point" appears in two etymology sections with the same passage of the same work (but with two different genitives) cited to support each one. I am sceptical that two strings which have homographic lemma forms and are so perfectly synonymous that they are used interchangeably can really have two different etymologies. - -sche (discuss) 01:10, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Etymology is similar but is different as is the inflection:

• 2nd declension punctus (gen. -i): late alternative form of punctum (gen. -i), substantivisation of the PPP punctus of verb pungō. The PPP could be analysed as pungō + -tus (etymology 1, forming PPP) with changement of g to c (cp. usage notes in -tus).
• 4th declension punctus (gen. -us): verb pungō +‎ suffix -tus (etymology 2).

As for the Pliny quote: The younger one doesn't reveal to which word it belongs (cp. Citations:puncto). The older as source for the sense point of punctus (-us) -- backed-up by L&S for the translation/meaning --, is older, so may be less reliable, less correct. Anyhow, Georges and L&S give other sources for both punctus (-i) and punctus (-us), that is even without Pliny both words should be attested, even though the sense point of punctus (-us) might not.

-84.161.20.186 19:59, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Is this discussion still active? The Pliny quote for the first etymology seems to have been removed. Johnny Shiz (talk) 21:18, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Doesn't appear that way — surjection ⟨??⟩ 21:51, 7 August 2021 (UTC)