Talk:push and shove

RFD discussion: September–October 2021

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push and shove

SOP. Imetsia (talk) 18:08, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

The present content doesn't do a great job of illustrating any idiomaticity, but I think that the verb sense deserves consideration as a set phrase, and probably a noun sense also could be included, as in e.g. "His younger brother, Varch, had wanted to try his hand at the political circle but had decided against it; there was too much push and shove [...]" or "The police moved into position, but aside from push and shove on the crowd's fringe, they let the rally proceed", etc. Also the derived pushing and shoving deserves more recognition IMO. Mihia (talk) 21:49, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

The push and shove of everyday life has several, seemingly independent, hits on Google Books. "Praying for divine intervention in daily affairs, the push and shove of everyday life, was futile, a waste of time." and "He loved the tempo of New York, the raw and naked push and shove of everyday life. In contrast, his life in Kabul was drab and subdued." It feels really idiomatic to me. There is one "the shove of everyday life": "The shove of everyday life in the streets, market, home."; I think I'd question or change that if I were editing it. There are a couple quotes for "the push of everyday life": e.g. "Secondly, the push of everyday life removes the patience that seniors need to be afforded to them." which would imply to me a far more steady pressure than "the push and shove" does.--Prosfilaes (talk) 02:32, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

I'd bet push and shove by itself could be cited as the grind of everyday life, or something slightly broader.

• The distinctive noises and smells of each street, along with the push and shove of traders, pilgrims, clerics and soldiers, made for an energised community that impressed contemporary tourists; page 28
• Gloria had always been more suited to the push and shove of the business world. page 20
• Mature souls tend to gravitate to a calm environment, they prefer the relative tranquillity^[sic] of the suburbs to the push and shove of a large City. unpaged
• In the push and shove of this day, enter my life and help me know that you are coming to meet me at every point of need. page 16

Unfortunately, collocation is insufficient. As defined, I would delete. But there might be is something here worth noting. DAVilla 04:26, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Keep DAVilla 01:05, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

I've added a noun sense. Probably keep. SemperBlotto (talk) 06:33, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Yes, keep both. DonnanZ (talk) 19:09, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

• Keep. Have people lost track of the concept of a set phrase? The word order, "push and shove" as opposed to "shove and push", has a markedly developed dominance. bd2412 T 20:20, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Keep as it is a set phrase. The push and shove of the marketplace, but not the kick and slap. Equinox ◑ 14:48, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

RFD-kept AG202 (talk) 16:24, 22 October 2021 (UTC)