Talk:sail close to the wind
Latest comment: 11 years ago by BD2412 in topic sail close to the wind
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We lack close to the wind, but nevertheless this is sail + close to the wind. Certainly not a set phrase as close to the wind can be modified by very, too, etc. Might be appropriate as a redirect to [[close to the wind]] and certainly as a usage example there. DCDuring TALK 18:24, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
- But the idiomatic sense is only for "sail close to the wind." If you "walk close to the wind," "fly close to the wind," or "be close to the wind," or even "tack close to the wind," then the idiomatic sense does not hold. keep Furius (talk) 04:04, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
- Perhaps in your idiolect, but not in some of these hits at Google Books. DCDuring TALK 05:09, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
- Those examples all still seem to be using "sail" as the verb, though. Multi-word idioms can often infix intensifiers and the like, e.g. we have able to get a word in edgewise, but "get a single word in edgewise" is attested [1], likewise, we have against all odds, but "against almost all the odds" is possible [2] Furius (talk) 08:47, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
- See close to the wind. Both the nautical and the figurative senses often use other verbs. Also note that sail close the wind is not a set phrase, accepting many intervening expressions between sail and close to the wind. Also, close to the wind can be comparative and superlative. With this variation, it should be clear that the essential core of the idiom is close to the wind. DCDuring TALK 10:14, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
- I'm not sure if what you said is true of a set phrase, assuming that is more narrowly defined, but more generally, idiomatic phrases are not required to be immutably so. DAVilla 03:15, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
- See close to the wind. Both the nautical and the figurative senses often use other verbs. Also note that sail close the wind is not a set phrase, accepting many intervening expressions between sail and close to the wind. Also, close to the wind can be comparative and superlative. With this variation, it should be clear that the essential core of the idiom is close to the wind. DCDuring TALK 10:14, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
- Those examples all still seem to be using "sail" as the verb, though. Multi-word idioms can often infix intensifiers and the like, e.g. we have able to get a word in edgewise, but "get a single word in edgewise" is attested [1], likewise, we have against all odds, but "against almost all the odds" is possible [2] Furius (talk) 08:47, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
- Perhaps in your idiolect, but not in some of these hits at Google Books. DCDuring TALK 05:09, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
- Keep both. Close to the wind evidently in use without sailing, but sail close to the wind is first of all very common and furthermore clearly idiomatic in that it does not require a sail. DAVilla 03:15, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
- Keep per Furius and DAVilla. There's also no sense of sail which corresponds to the one used in sense 2. "To move briskly" is perhaps the closest, but that doesn't really translate to "to behave in a manner." Hence, the expression is idiomatic. Astral (talk) 22:55, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
- I hope that those expressing themselves on this will be adding and attesting all attestable extended meanings of basic verbs like sail and all the forms of this expression that use different verbs. Let not any metaphorical use of any expression go undefined. All metaphorical senses of all expressions in all languages! DCDuring TALK 01:29, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
- Comments like this are the reason I now rarely vote in RfD discussions and generally give this page a wide berth. Astral (talk) 02:06, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
"Keep" per apsc. The expression is "sail close to the wind".
Striking as kept. bd2412 T 03:18, 6 May 2013 (UTC)