Talk:tenedor

Pron

@Mar vin kaiser I don't think tainga spelling is comparable to tenedor here. the "a-i" combination naturally morphs to /ay/ or /e/ and there are multiple examples like (kelangan, tena, meron) , that's why the tenga pron is acceptable there. But for tenedor, do spelled "e"s become /i/?, because for what I'm aware of, it's the reverse that naturally happens, from /i/ to /e/, like "dati" > "date". Seeing tenedor become pronounced tinidor is unusual and the "/tinidor/" pronunciation is associated with the "tinidor" spelling. Unless there are also other spelled words with "e" (in modern othography) that are pronounced as /i/ then I'd say fair enough but that's my rationale.

That's why I was suggesting before to have usage notes instead that the "tinidor" spelling (with corresponding pron) is more used because I don't think there are people that spells tenedor that says tinidor either way. Unlike when you said bundok written as is, can be pronounced as bunrok in Rizal. When you have someone look at "tenedor" they'll pronounce it with a /e/ sound. But, for my latest change, as compromise, I think it's also appropriate if /tinidor/ is there because of current situation + KWF orthography but /tenedor/ I think shouldn't be marked uncommon because people (if you make them read now) will always read "tenedor" as /tenedor/ not /tinidor/. It's the spelling that's uncommon, not the pronunciation but yea KWF standards. And by having both /tenedor/ and /tinidor/ without labels of which is more common, that is linked to "tenedor" spelling, it just becomes an alternate pron for "tenedor".

Just my two cents. Ysrael214 (talk) 10:48, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

@Ysrael214: Actually, I've thought about this for a while. Actually, borrowings from Spanish during the Spanish period were mostly /e/ to /i/. For example, "tomates" became "kamatis", "sombrero" became "sambalilo", "cebollas" became "sibuyas", "mas que" became "maski", "hace caso" became "asikaso", "entender" became "intindi", I could go on and list probably over a hundred words that went through this change (you can still see this among the Bisaya, they preserved this). The Spanish words we have today in Tagalog that preserved the /e/ sound are recent borrowings, either late 19th century or early 20th century, by educated Filipinos that knew Spanish, so we have words like "presidente", "gobyerno", "unibersidad", etc. That's why we have this weird situation with "siguro" and "seguro". These two are from the same Spanish word "seguro", but Tagalog borrowed it early on to mean "maybe" (siguro), but more recently borrowed "seguro" to mean "insurance". Actually, I think that "tinidor" and "tenedor" should be made the same way here, "tinidor" means "fork", and "tenedor" meaning "caretaker" is a latter borrowing. As for the modern /i/ to /e/ phenomenon, yep that's a reversal. That's why I think /tinedor/ is a valid colloquial pronunciation for this word. --Mar vin kaiser (talk) 09:19, 3 December 2022 (UTC)