Talk:to that end

Wiktionary:Requests for deletion - kept

Kept. See archived discussion of December 2007. 20:00, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

That was not the decision reached in the linked discussion. Most participants said "do not delete, but maybe redirect". That's not the same as voting "keep". Also, there is still a discussion open on RfD, so the tag should remain. --EncycloPetey 15:50, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Request for deletion

The following information passed a request for deletion.

This discussion is no longer live and is left here as an archive. Please do not modify this conversation, but feel free to discuss its conclusions.

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to this end

Tagged by DCDuring but not listed. My first instinct is keep. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:05, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

One of a large number of phrasal and clausal ways of saying therefore or so. AFAICT, they are all readily decodable. If we want to provide lexical support for English circumlocutions for the benefit of translators, this would be the kind of entry we would want. It is the prototype for a vast number of entries (eg, the redlinked synonyms).

I would prefer that we have a large number of black (unlinked) synonyms at the one-word equivalents and any idiomatic synonyms there may be, possibly with redirects. DCDuring TALK 12:45, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Yup (weak) delete, these should be in some sort of Wikisaurus entry. I'll tag to this end as well. --Mglovesfun (talk) 23:43, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

However, see Talk:to this end, although safe to say after 2 years, consensus can change. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:10, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Keep these entries extra-CFI as set phrases, with their likes "in all honesty", "in all fairness", "to be frank", "to be honest", "be that as it may", "having said that", "that said", "as far as I know", "as far as I am concerned", etc. See also RFD:to this end, August 2007. Alternatively, let us have an appendix for such set phrases, but do not delete them until the appendix is created; candidate title: "Appendix:English set phrases".--Dan Polansky 20:42, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

If someone can have a good operational definition of "set phrase", the appendix would be a good home, though I've often thought Wikisaurus would be a better home, linked to by {{only in}}. Dictionary.com includes such in their thesaurus. DCDuring TALK 23:21, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

By the modification and coordination tests run on COCA, to this end will accept modifiers of "end" ("to this very end", "to this desired end", and "to this humane end") and also coordinates of "end" ("to this end and purpose"). Thus, it would seem to not be a set phrase. DCDuring TALK 17:56, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

to be honest is not as sum of parts as this, as they specific meaning cannot be understood from to + be + honest. However I'll change to a weak delete. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:11, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

"to" (towards) "this" (the one in question) "end" (goal; aim; objective). Yeah it's sum of parts. Mglovesfun (talk) 12:29, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

• I would go for keep. Yes, it might be decodable by its individual parts, especially for a native speaker. However "to", "this" and "end" are extremely common words with multiple potential meanings, and I've no doubt a non-native speaker would find this kind of wording peculiar. I mean, it's not as if we say "to this goal", "to this intent", "to this target", etc, in the same way. ---> Tooironic 13:01, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
• Keep as per Tooironic. I recall "To this end" was on a list of phrases to be learnt when I was young. Similar to learning that "husband and wife" is good and the literal (from Dutch) translation "man and wife" is wrong. Joepnl 21:49, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Just an aside: man and wife is fine in English, though possibly a bit dated. Equinox ◑ 21:54, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

No wonder I had such bad grades for English, I didn't have Internet back then. :) Joepnl 22:28, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Delete both per DCDuring.​—msh210℠ 17:43, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

keep. A common formal expression the meaning of which couldn't be guessed. Hey, it should be tagged {{formal}} --Rising Sun talk? contributions 20:35, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

• Kept --Rising Sun talk? contributions 00:13, 17 April 2010 (UTC)