Talk:tous les deux

Request for deletion

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Sum of parts. Basically "all two them", you can replace deux with any number, clearly smaller numbers are going to be more common, but it's not idiomatic or a set phrase. Mglovesfun (talk) 21:40, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Weak keep. I think it's sum of parts for a French speaker, but for an English speaker it's not so obvious, since English all and both are mutually exclusive, and French tous nearly always means the former. (And note that neither *“all two” nor *“both two” works in English, the former being contradictory and the latter redundant. This locution only works in a language that uses a single word for both senses.) For that matter, even French-internally, I vaguely feel that “Jean et Jacques sont tous (les deux) venus” sounds better with the “les deux”, whereas “Jean, Jacques et James sont tous (les trois) venus” sounds better without the “les trois”. I could well be wrong about that — it could well be just my anglophony leaking through and affecting my judgment — but if I'm right about it, then it suggests that even in French, bare tous implies three-or-more. (Any native French speakers, or at least, better speakers than I, care to comment on that?) —Ruakh_TALK 01:48, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

We say "Jean et Jacques sont venus tous les deux”, never "Jean et Jacques sont tous venus”. For more than 2: both “Jean, Jacques et James sont venus tous les trois” and “Jean, Jacques et James sont tous venus” are possible. Lmaltier 17:27, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! In that case, strong keep. —Ruakh_TALK 17:49, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Keep for the same reason, suggesting to do the same for other languages. I think it's also worth considering keeping words that are sum of parts in English but are not so in many other languages like it was the case with roof tile. That way, our dictionary will work better in both directions as an English-FL and as a FL-English. --Anatoli 02:11, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm leaning to delete, as long as we deal with this properly at tous (which is what English speakers who don't understand the construction are likely to look up). Ƿidsiþ 15:10, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Weak delete per Widsith.​—msh210℠ 15:34, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Idiomatic, common, keep. —Stephen 18:38, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

not so sure. If we keep it, a note at tous would be needed. Note that one can also sasy "tous nous deux", "tous vous deux", "tous leurs trois" etc. --Rising Sun talk? 12:50, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

No, no, you cannot say "tous nous deux", "tous vous deux", "tous leurs trois" etc. Lmaltier 18:35, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Really? I didn't know that. I've been saying it wrong then all these years! How would one say "us two", "us four", "you five", "them six" in French? Just nous deux, nous quatre, vous cinq, eux six? And how about "all of us four" - this would be tous nous quatre, right? --Rising Sun talk? 16:22, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, nous deux, nous quatre, vous cinq, eux six are OK. But you cannot say tous nous quatre, just say tous les quatre. Lmaltier 17:56, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Kept due to no consensus.​—msh210℠ 17:05, 22 April 2010 (UTC)