User talk:Fish bowl/p/mul
[[Module:User:Suzukaze-c/zh-pron/documentation]][edit]
(hidden)(hidden)
non-template model[edit]
- Mandarin (Standard Mandarin)
- Cantonese (Standard Cantonese)
- (literary) Jyutping: jap6 loi4 ▼
- (vernacular) Jyutping: jap6 lai4 ▼
- (vernacular) Jyutping: jap6 lei4 ▼
- Min Nan: Hokkien
- Middle Chinese
zhp.txt[edit]
===Pronunciation===
{{zh-p|m <!--MANDARIN-->
|cn=yun3 <!--Mainland; allow use of pinyin numbers for ease of input (→automatic placement of tone mark)-->
|tw=foo1@MoE <!--Taiwan; use pinyin due to one-to-one relationship and ease of input-->
|bj=run3@1@2 <!--Beijing-->
|dg=фу0 <!--Dungan-->
|Tianjin=/fu:55/ <!--"other places"; no abbreviations for clarity? coordinate data with zh-dial?-->
|x:wg=yün3 <!--override automatic--> <!--make it clear that automatic conversion was overridden-->
|x:sw=yn@Zhang19xx <!--override automatic--> <!--ziantuan & o/e... generate semiautomatically using rime data?-->
|x:Hongwu=baz
|x:Laoqida=qux@Chongkan <!--and then show us some Cool Reconstructions™-->
|x:Menggu=fhoo
|1=http://example.com/?v=foo&t=10m10s <!--citing real-life examples! fun (→usex/quotation?)-->
|2=http://example.com/?v=bar&t=20m20s
}}
{{zh-p|m <!--MANDARIN-->
|=Guóyǔ Luómǎzì <!--"": no cn/tw difference-->
|x:gr=Gwoyeu Romatzyh <!--override automatic-->
|x:sw=Guoy Romaz <!--override automatic-->
}}
{{zh-p|c <!--CANTONESE-->
|=sek4<shek4 <!--can hist. pron.s be generated semiautomatically using rime data?-->
}}
{{zh-p|mn <!--MIN NAN-->
|h:ml,tw=foo@2
|h:qz,xm=foo@n1@a1
|t:st=liag8{lit}<liad8{hist}@1; lug4{col}<lud{hist}@Bar18xx{p14}
|1=Foo18xx{p108} <!--make ref non-inline if too intrusive-->
|2=informant from Taipei (~~~~~) <!--semi-joking semi-serious idea: accountability-->
|n1=Used only in [[詞語]]. <!--"n-" prefix reserved for notes-->
|a1=nan-qz-foo.oga{qz} <!--"a-" prefix reserved for audio; tag audio with region-->
|notes=The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog. <!--miscellaneous notes-->
}}
{{zh-p|hist <!--HISTORICAL--> <!--or "misc"?-->
|mc:Guangyun=y <!--data module for Guangyun-->
|x:GSR=bar <!--Grammata Serica Recensa?-->
|oc:BS=1,2 <!--"oc:BS"? "x:BS" due to inclusion of Guangyun and Mandarin?-->
|oc:ZZ=2,1
}}
==misc. notes==
* distinguish between romanization as transcription and romanization as orthography?
** such as GR or SW special spellings
*** "Gwoyeu Luomaatzyh" / "Gwoyeu Romatzyh"; "mai" / "maai"
** or the finer points of Hanyu Pinyin, like capitalization of surnames or chengyu hyphens
*** (hmmm, but is it "Hanyu Pinyin" if it doesn't follow the official spelling rules?)
**** CC-CEDICT doesn't follow rules, and lots of native chinese speakers aren't aware of orthographical rules
**** https://en.wiktionary.org/?oldid=51141395#Thought_on_alternate_forms_of_Hanyu_Pinyin
* having regional IPA is cool and all, but stuff like tone class is important
** data modules for each reference work and/or appendix page?
*** hmm sounds like Work™
**** can't be worse than making a new custom WT Romanization™ + module for every dialect
* include historical versions of reconstructions? for comparison
===problems===
* potential over-reliance on / abuse of(?) references
** don't need to cite everything under the sun, but sometimes it could be ~interesting~ and remove doubts ("{{ping|Example}} where did this come from?")
* ugly wikitext?
** balance between compact, sensible, and usable
===wikitext annotation styles?===
|m=foo{hist}@Zhang2000{p10}@Chen2010{p20} <!--compact-->
|m=foo{hist}[Zhang2000]{p10}[Chen2010]{p20} <!--?-->
|m=foo[q=hist][Zhang2000|p=10][Chen2010|p=20] <!--reminiscent of normal templates-->
|m=foo:hist@Zhang2000:p10@Chen2010:p20 <!--more compact; 令人睇到眼花? monotonous-->
<!--with other stuff that probably should be inline, but this is all theoretical-->
|m=foo{hist}@Zhang2000{p10}@Chen2010{p20}@a{zh-foo.oga}{Taipei}@a{zh-foo-2.oga}{Tainan}@n{Only used in [[詞語]].}
|m=foo{hist}[Zhang2000]{p10}[Chen2010]{p20}[a]{zh-foo.oga}{Taipei}[a]{zh-foo-2.oga}{Tainan}[n]{Only used in [[詞語]].}
|m=foo[q=hist][Zhang2000|p=10][Chen2010|p=20][a=zh-foo.oga|Taipei][a=zh-foo-2.oga|Tainan][n=Only used in [[詞語]].]
|m=foo:hist@Zhang2000:p10@Chen2010:p20@a:zh-foo.oga:Taipei@a:zh-foo-2.oga:Tainan@n:Only used in [[詞語]].
<!--(reminder: gotta write code to parse that)-->
|m=foo{hist}@Zhang2000{p10}@Chen2010{p20}@a1@a2@n1
|a1=zh-foo.oga{Taipei}
|a2=zh-foo-2.oga{Tainan}
|n1=Only used in [[詞語]].
|m=foo{hist}[Zhang2000]{p10}[Chen2010]{p20}[a1][a2][n1]
|a1=zh-foo.oga{Taipei}
|a2=zh-foo-2.oga{Tainan}
|n1=Only used in [[詞語]].
|m=foo[q=hist][Zhang2000|p=10][Chen2010|p=20][a1][a2][n1]
|a1=zh-foo.oga[a=Taipei]
|a2=zh-foo-2.oga[a=Tainan]
|n1=Only used in [[詞語]].
|m=foo:hist@Zhang2000:p10@Chen2010:p20@a1@a2@n1
|a1=zh-foo.oga:Taipei
|a2=zh-foo-2.oga:Tainan
|n1=Only used in [[詞語]].
===marking cantonese tones===
hoeng1- level
hoeng1` falling
===reuse of data===
write
{{zh-p|m
|=允xu4
}}
and let {{zh-p}} read from [[允#Pronunciation]]?
.[edit]
Hiding a candle under a bushel: m_note[edit]
Putting the m_note and the pronunciation qualifiers like "Mainland" and "Taiwan" right out in the open would be useful to readers. When the readers sees two, three or four pronunciations just sitting there as if they are equally as important and valid, the reader will wonder: okay, now which one do I use? Hitting people over the head with the basic information is GOOD, not bad. There are only several million experts who directly grasp the nuances of the four pronunciations of fa and other minutiae of this type- that leaves two billion customers (English speakers and Chinese speakers) in the dark. Let the reader know: yeah, there are four pronunciations for this character, but the normal one is this one. Put Wade Giles and Guoyu Luomazi (and Tongyong Pinyin and Zhuyin Di'ershi) in the netherworld of the zh-pron labyrinth, but bring the useful information that a reader who knows nothing about Chinese needs to know immediately right in front of their eyes so they might see it by mistake and realize this dictionary is useful for figuring out duoyinzi. This will lead to increased precision in the editing of those notes and qualifiers. If that can't be accepted by the community, perhaps all zh-pron that have a m_note might have a "see note below" at the top of the opened-up version of zh-pron right next to the word 'Mandarin'. Maybe such a note could be added directly after the pronunciations in the closed-up version of zh-pron. Using these methods, the reader could be made aware that opening zh-pron and scrolling down may be eventually worth it, even if it takes several seconds. Of course, 法 could always be split up into four sections by pronunciation. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 08:39, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
- Speaking for myself, I am very aware that 法國 is pronounced differently in Taiwan, but I am very unclear about the other pronunciations for 法. Never had them taught to me, never learned them, don't know much about them. I was just barely kind of aware that they existed at all. --Geographyinitiative (talk) 08:45, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
- Absolutely. —Suzukaze-c◇◇ 08:47, 26 May 2019 (UTC)