User talk:Hvergi

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Enjoy your stay at Wiktionary! Vininn126 (talk) 15:31, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Formatting

Hi, and welcome!

Please try and familiarise with WT:ELE. It's important to keep our entries at least distantly in the same style, see for instance my changes to svoldið and doldið.

I think you'll find CAT:Icelandic templates (and subcategories) helpful. Icelandic template infrastructure is pretty much done, so you should use {{is-noun}}, {{is-adj}} etc. instead of the bare {{head}}. You can also find inflection-table templates there, like {{is-decl-adj-3}}, these mostly speak for themselves.

But for the rest, I'm happy we have another Icelandic editor! If you have any questions, feel free to approach me. Happy editing! Thadh (talk) 17:33, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Thadh, hi, thank you, had thought I had correctly copied the order of other entries, but will try to follow ELE more closely. There is actually one thing I've been hoping to ask someone: I have found template discovery to be pretty difficult; if I am unable to imitate another entry I have not once wound up finding a relevant template myself. There doesn't appear to be any documentation about the Icelandic inflection table templates, they follow some seemingly arbitrary and undocumented naming structure ("Adjective table, variation no. 3"?) and none of the parameters are documented, so I feel like I must be missing something. Hvergi (talk) 21:47, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Most inflection tables are pretty straightforward, so my guess is the creater just didn't feel like making a documentation. You should actually approach User:Krun for Icelandic-specific questions, since they are the ones that created most of the infrastructure here. But yeah, learning what templates there are for a large language like Icelandic is pretty difficult and I'm afraid the only way to do it is to look through the category and look at other entries, see what they use. Hope this helps a little! Thadh (talk) 22:37, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

The numbering scheme for inflections follows the traditional categorization found in Icelandic grammar books. If you look at Íslensk tunga II you will see what I mean. The templates have built-in features for u-umlaut, i-umlaut, ablaut grades in strong verbs, etc.; if you have any more questions, please ask away. – Krun (talk) 10:06, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

Removing accessibility features

Thanks for editing this appendix, but please don't remove accessibility features like table captions. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 13:50, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Oh, wasn't aware that a table caption served that purpose, thank you for letting me know. Hvergi (talk) 13:54, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

No worries. Similarly, scopes, etc. If you need any help with accessibility features, please let me know. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 13:55, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Sæll

Where does it say that the senses for the word sæll: fortunate and dear are old-fashioned? Mannrinn (talk) 23:11, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

@Mannrinn These labels are often just a matter of editor opinion, but I believe most speakers would considered them quite old-fashioned — do you not? They are for example not included in Árnastofnun's Dictionary of Modern Icelandic, a dictionary which does not include obsolete terms. "Fortunate" in particular seems obsolete outside of certain set phrases. Hvergi (talk) 12:02, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

(unrelated to the above question, but) why wouldn't you analyse sæll as both an interjection and an adjective? Interjections aren't a morphological class, so it just means that this word can be used as an exclamatory particle without modifying a noun or acting as a substantive itself.

Compare for instance also Dutch dag, which is originally just "day" (so, a noun), but can be used as an interjection to mean "hi/good day". Or English welcome, which is also both an adjective and an interjection. Thadh (talk) 14:36, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

@Thadh All other dictionaries I could find analyse it only as an adjective (even BÍN, which usually includes all variant classifications) since it inflects with the person being addressed. In standard Icelandic POS tagging, only uninflectable words can be interjections, and I've not heard of words being classified as (for example) masculine-plural-specific interjections. It seems to be the same situation with velkominn (“welcome”). Hvergi (talk) 15:03, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Well, the choice is up to you. We don't necessarily need to follow other dictionaries' choices, but if you agree with that analysis, that's fine - I mean, hell, if Tokelauan fitu can be a verb, sæll can be an adjective ;) Thadh (talk) 15:15, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

I disagree that the the two forementioned senses of the word sæll are “old-fashioned”. The two forementioned senses appear in other dictionaries such as Íslensk-ensk orðabók, Íslensk-dönsk orðabók and Íslensk-spænsk orðabók. Mannrinn (talk) 16:47, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

@Mannrinn I've removed the labels, but I still cannot think of or find examples where the "fortunate" sense would be used in modern Icelandic (outside of idioms). (Those dictionaries rarely label terms that are still in use in idioms, if I recall correctly) Hvergi (talk) 10:07, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Eye dialect and pronunciation spelling

Thank you for editing my recent touchup of the Appendix:Glossary page and providing insight as to your reasoning. I still believe it was better the way I had it, but as I expect other people will have other viewpoints, I need to take this slowly and not just revert without explanation.

My view is that eye dialect and pronunciation spelling are functional opposites, and that the original author coining the term eye dialect intended it that way, but I understand that terms evolve in sense over time.

Since you didnt change my wording of the eye dialect entry, I assume we agree on that, which is great .... but others seem to disagree, so there is more than one viewpoint here. I would like to see this resolved in a thread somewhere.

I think it's also worth pointing out that there are many other reasons to present a word with an altered spelling, and that many such words, perhaps the majority, do not fit into either category. For example, we have satiric misspellings, children's speech ("wowwipop"), leetspeak, and so on.

Anyway, these are my answers to the words you mentioned in your edit summary:

dunno: If we want to call this a pronunciation spelling I suppose I can begrudge that, but I think that isn't really the best descriptor. I'd always just considered this a contraction along the lines of wont, you're, and so on ... just one that's recent enough to still be stigmatized. I note that we don't consider the structurally similar gonna to be a pronunciation spelling.

kiero: Although not fluent in Spanish, I can see no way this could be considered a pronunciation spelling. I'd have to see samples of usage to know if there is something specific to this word, or if it's just part of the general trend of replacing qu with k, hu with w, and so on that seems prevalent online.

gvuð: I wouldnt consider this a pronunciation spelling, nor an eye dialect spelling. This is simply one of the many words which does not fit into either category. I admit my knowledge of Icelandic is very low, however, so I want to focus on English.

I think it's plain that there are more than two viewpoints on this issue, and so I again stress I don't intend to go after you personally. I want to take this slow .... the last time I started a discussion on an issue like this I was quickly overwhelmed, and since I think this is going to be a longstanding issue I see no need to hurry it along. However, I do want to attend to this and I hope that, if I revert the Glossary page to the way I'd had it before, you won't see this as undue escalation.

Best regards,

—Soap— 11:29, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

@Soap, not at all, feel free to revert. Indeed the vast majority of terms tagged here as pronunciation spellings are deliberate misspellings that indicate a dialect, there are just a handful that didn't seem to fit that description. Hvergi (talk) 11:40, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks a lot for the Spanish edits. You've clearly got some excellent knowledge to share with us :) Flackofnubs (talk) 20:40, 30 November 2022 (UTC)