User talk:KoreanQuoter/2012-2014

Welcome!

Hello, welcome to Wiktionary, and thank you for your contribution so far. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

• How to edit a page is a concise list of technical guidelines to the wiki format we use here: how to, for example, make text boldfaced or create hyperlinks. Feel free to practice in the sandbox. If you would like a slower introduction we have a short tutorial.
• Entry layout explained (ELE) is a detailed policy documenting how Wiktionary pages should be formatted. All entries should conform to this standard, the easiest way to do this is to copy exactly an existing page for a similar word.
• Our Criteria for inclusion (CFI) define exactly which words Wiktionary is interested in including. There is also a list of things that Wiktionary is not for a higher level overview.
• The FAQ aims to answer most of your remaining questions, and there are several help pages that you can browse for more information.
• We have discussion rooms in which you can ask any question about Wiktionary or its entries, a glossary of our technical jargon, and some hints for dealing with the more common communication issues.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wiktionarian! If you have any questions, bring them to the Wiktionary:Information desk, or ask me on my talk page. If you do so, please sign your posts with four tildes: ~~~~ which automatically produces your username and the current date and time.

Again, welcome! JackPotte 18:01, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Category links

Hi, please note that to put a Category link on a page, you must prefix the category link with a colon, like so: Category:Breads. Otherwise the page actually just gets put into that category, which is almost inevitably going to be wrong if you were just trying to make a link. User: PalkiaX50 ^{talk to meh} 13:03, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Appendix:Proto-Slavic/sedmь

I saw the interwiki link to Korean Wiktionary and, while I can't read any Korean, I noticed the definition said "10". I think that may be a mistake? —CodeCat 18:09, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

It's a mistake. My bad. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 18:10, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Interwiki

You don't need to enter interwiki manually, as we have bots to add these. Thus, the following edits are unneeded: diff, diff, diff. --Dan Polansky (talk) 14:09, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

задвигать

Hi,

The entry is done. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:28, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Russian inflected forms

Hi,

I hope this can be eventually done more efficiently and quickly by a bot, like a user creates Latvian forms. Please don't spend your time on creating these forms manually, there's so much to do. :) BTW, I've added links inflected forms in the new conjugation templates (i.e. the module), only have to figure out or find out how to change red to black, e.g. читать. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 11:10, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Wow! You are a genius. I will forever respect you. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 15:08, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks but I shouldn't take all the credit for all the work on Module:ru-verb. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 23:01, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Appendix:Korean Swadesh list

Hi,

Do yo mind checking the recent edits by a new user, please? --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 13:33, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Transliteration of 값

Hi,

How are you? How should 값 be transliterated according to w:Revised Romanization of Korean? I think it's "gapt", not "gaps" but "gaps-" when followed by a vowel. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 06:41, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

It changes when the next syllable begins with a vowel: 값 (gap), 값이 (gapssi). —Stephen ^(Talk) 08:32, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, Stephen. A Korean user Russ in Korean wiki suggested gapt when final and gapsi when followed by i for example. Yes, it's pronounced "gap" but we're trying to get the most standard way. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 08:59, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Korean transliteration

Hello. Me and User:Atitarev are currently working on a module for automatic romanisation of 한글. We seem to be kind of roaming in the dark, so any help from a proficient speaker would be appreciated. The discussion is mostly at Module talk:ko-translit/testcases. Keφr 06:44, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Strange minds think alike. Keφr 06:46, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

붙이다

Hi,

Could you please double-check if the conjugation seems correct in 붙이다? What is an example phrase with "to wage" sense, which I found on dic.naver.com? I can't find "전쟁을 붙이다". --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 06:40, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

The conjugation is correct. 전쟁을 붙이다 is not the right sentence. 붙이다 in this sense is only for petty fights or arguments, not wars. It is 전쟁을 벌이다 or 전쟁을 부추기다. 벌이다 means "to wage". 부추기다 means "to instigate". I hope the explanation is ok. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 12:59, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 20:00, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Perfective Counterpart -> Related terms

Hi,

How are you? Could you use a more standard header "Related terms", please? --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 07:30, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Also, you don't need to use tr= in most cases, just use head= on the headword with an accent, no need to put accents with words with ё (always stressed). See зовёт (zovjót) (with ё) and зову́т (zovút) (with an accent), please note my usage of {{l}}. --Anatoli ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 07:33, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

"Minor edits'

Hi,

Pls change your default edits to "major" (untick "minor" in preferences). "Minor" edits are only for fixing small errors, such as typos. Thanks for your contributions so far. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:37, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

How do I do this? --KoreanQuoter (talk) 02:38, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Done. Forgive me if I'm doing something wrong that can harm this community. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 02:43, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

It's no harm. :) It just makes it easier for everybody to see what everybody's doing, including me. By default minor edits are excluded from my watchlist, which is huge. Someone else also commented on your "minor edits. I thought I'd let you know. I am checking your edits, which is fine. You're getting much better and it must be hard for you. I usually can spot errors in Russian entries easily but you're not a native speaker. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:00, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Well, I'm also taking care of the Russian entries in the Korean Wiktionary all by myself. (cue the forever alone мем) I want to contribute my best at least for the Russian entries here. So, thank you very much. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 03:24, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Russian National Corpus

Hi Daeho (is it correct? 대호?),

There are some high-frequency words still missing here from Appendix:Frequency_dictionary_of_the_modern_Russian_language_(the_Russian_National_Corpus). You can try some (after 2,000), if you wish. :) --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 04:42, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

It's 태호 (Taeho) actually. (The "t" must be aspirated like in English or German) Thank you very much. I'll look into this and make some entries. And I'll show you List of 5800 basic Korean words approved by the "National Institute of the Korean Language" in 2004 that is missing in Wiktionary. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 04:58, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

It's here - Wiktionary:Frequency_lists/Korean_5800. :) --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 05:01, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Sorry about the name, Taeho. I assumed it was Daeho because you cyrillised your name with the traditional Ким (Kim), as opposed to Gim. :) --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 05:08, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

I have to say that languages that lack voiced consonants as phonemes (like Korean) have difficulties in Romanization/Cyrillization. Hence, Ю́лий Черсанович Ким. — This unsigned comment was added by KoreanQuoter (talk • contribs).

Я буду называть тебя Тэхо, если ты не против. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 05:28, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Sure thing, but only on Facebook please. Since I think the former moderator of the Korean Wiktionary is trolling. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 05:55, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

OK. Who is it? Is it Russ? --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 06:02, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

A-heun. Russ retired (most likely serving the military for 2 years.) --KoreanQuoter (talk) 06:36, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Fascinating. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 05:06, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Questions relating to Russian

Hello. I have some questions.

• What is the exact meaning of спутать? Some people say it's imperfective, others say it's perfective. I think it has a slightly different meaning pertaining to "mix up". And the Vikislovar' version needs improvements.
• Do you need a past tense subordinate clause right after будто? --KoreanQuoter (talk) 07:19, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

1. It's perfective. I've made the entry here in the English Wiktionary. Pls check. Sorry, I don't work much in the Russian Wiktionary.
2. Not necessarily, you can use it with the present tense as well but let me know if you have specific examples. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 09:04, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Oh, thank you very much. I also have another question. It is concerning about a rather offensive interjection, тьфу. Does the "у" have a stress mark in the speech? It's because I want to put an ru-IPA about this. (And I'm also trying my best to replace the old IPA line to ru-IPA). Thank you very much again. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 14:20, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Monosyllabic words don't need a word stress. Template {{ru-IPA}} doesn't need any parameter either for monosyllabic words (e.g. {{ru-IPA|тьфу}} = {{ru-IPA}}, I'm just adding words for consistency. Pls remember that there are irregularly pronounced words (they usually have some manual transliteration here, e.g. "ɛ" when there is no palatalisation in front of "е") but they are not always marked with irregular transliterations. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 14:35, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

I try not to touch the irregularly pronounced words at all cost. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 14:54, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

I made как бы не a while ago. I wonder if you could check it, please. (I based it on this) It's a rather complicated conjunction that is also in an idiom, как бы не так. I think I might made some mistakes in advance. But anyways, thank you in advance, приятель. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 06:01, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

I've made some changes but will check again later. Your skills are improving. :) Gotta go now. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 06:03, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

One question. Is this sentence "Многие люды боялись, как бы не прочитать газетную статью о катастрофе", grammatically correct? I think I spot 1 or 2 wrong cases of grammatical usage. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 02:21, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

It's incorrect and it doesn't make sense to me. I have removed it. "как бы не" refers to future possible events one is scared of, not "after". If you find a source you used to make this example sentence, let me know.--Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:27, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

So both my sentence and its English translation were wrong. I see. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 02:31, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Is it ok to put "refers to future possible events one is scared of" into the как бы не article? This is a valuable piece of information. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 02:43, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, it's OK, "scared of" or "worried about". Implied main clause - "как бы не пошёл дождь" - (I'm worried) if it's going to rain. The main clause "боюсь, ...", etc. is implied here. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 02:48, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Now I feel worried that "Мой коллега беспокоился, как бы она не встретила своего менеджера." could be ungrammatical. For instance, the main clause is in the past tense. (This sentence is from the как бы не article.)--KoreanQuoter (talk) 03:21, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

It's correct, I've checked the entry. The main clause can be in any tense, the dependent clause should be in the past tense or use an infinitive. There's no agreement of tenses in Russian, as in English and there's no pluperfect. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:26, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Then how would you translate "Мой коллега беспокоился, как бы она не встретила своего менеджера."? I think my translation is rather poor. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 03:30, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

No, it's fine. See examples on the web, which have the same grammar: "Он беспокоился, как бы она в гневе не натворила каких-нибудь глупостей.", "Покупал цветы при каждом удобном случае, беспокоился, как бы она не простудилась в этих своих модных сапогах на шпильках и шубке по пояс." "Он больше беспокоился, как бы она через посредство Пруссии не навязала свое господство государствам Рейнского союза." --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:34, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

So let me get this straight. This sentence "Многие люди боялись, как бы не прочитать газетную статью о катастрофе." is grammatically OK in Russian, but the English translation that I made is wrong. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 03:38, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

I don't understand the meaning of the Russian sentence. Are they afraid that someone else reads the article or they themselves got scared after reading the article? In any case, the sentence is incorrect.

1. ... люди боялись, как бы не кто-нибудь прочитал ...--Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:51, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
2. ... люди испугались, когда прочитали ...--Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 03:51, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Now I understand. (Well, I'm still doing my best in learning Russian so I can pass my TORFL exam this year. I worked for an year, so I had stopped learning Russian at that time.) Thank you very much for your great help. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 04:00, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

You're welcome and good luck with your studies and the exam. :) --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 05:41, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

By the way, из-за того что is attested in gramota.ru. And I didn't make this entry, but I think из-за этого is a "союз" that can be used only in a very informal colloquial setting. It sounds like it is used like this: из-за этого, (как) among people of non-educated class. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 06:33, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, you're right, actually. :) I got a bit confused in your explanation and examples but anyway... --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 07:26, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

One question: What is this noun словарность? It is not well-known in the Yandex Slovari. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 14:35, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

It's not a very common or useful word, a neologism, meaining criteria for the inclusion of terms into dictionaries. It may not be attestable, so словарность may not have enough of словарность. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 04:12, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

How very odd and how very fascinating. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 15:56, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

I have to say that both до того как and перед тем как can be interchangeable in every context, except that the two conjugations have a "very tiny" oddity of having a very short interval or not. That's all I know from my grammar class. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 06:50, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

And seeing словно бы and словно, I don't know if I'm doing this right? --KoreanQuoter (talk) 08:20, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

I thought for a while and I think I have to make some amendments with словно бы and словно. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 08:50, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Could you bring back не прошло, как and не прошло и, как into my user page? Maybe it's much better to move both of the content to пройти instead. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 08:08, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

@KoreanQuoter Hi. Please don't take it personally, if I delete some of your entries or remove contents. The collocations above may be OK for a vocab list in a textbook or flash cards introducing/highlighting the Russian grammar but they are not dictionary units, in my opinion. There a few problems in defining them as dictionary terms. It's all about usage of words, such as "пройти", . The verb can "пройти" be used in other tenses, the imperfective "проходить" also less commonly in the present tense, "как" is optional in some cases, "и" is also used to introduce the main part, which is also optional. You can view deleted items yourself by clicking on view/restore. I have exported your sentence into пройти with the fixes. Some of your usage notes I find a bit too wordy and a bit confusing for a dictionary but they maybe useful for some grammar appendices. Sorry, if I upset you, I am more experienced in the English Wiktionary and I'm still learning. You can check the opinion of other Russian-speaking editors, if you wish. :) BTW, I will need your help with Korean. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 10:15, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

FYI, AFAIK, non-admins can't view deleted items. Chuck Entz (talk)

I'm more worried that I freaked you out, actually. I'm the one who should say sorry to you. Well, conjunctions (союзы) are the hardest aspects of Russian language learners. So I try to put some usage notes. And I can help you with the Korean entries. Bear in mind that South Koreans use a lot of English loanwords in strange ways. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 10:41, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

No, I'm not freaking out yet, while you're not mass-creating entries :) Also, if you keep the entries simpler, you will get into less trouble. Note that Yandex dictionaries is a collection of dictionaries, they may have duplications or something that looks like a context tag (e.g. горн. - "mining") but is just a reference to the source dictionary. I also find some complicated things in Korean, which I'm not sure (yet) how to fit into the dictionary context - e.g. forming the future forms with -ㄹ/-을 거에요. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 11:25, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

I guess I'm making the Russian conjunction entries more complicated. OTL . And the Korean future form isn't really a future form per se. Originally Korean didn't have the future "-ㄹ 거에요" before the Japanese colonial era. It means more like "It is VERB-related thing that someone has to do sooner or later". And most of the Korean linguists are still frustrated about this. But anyways, I can tell you that the Korean future tense (ex. 말하다 > 말할) is just a gerund-like construction. For example, 말할 방법 (a way to talk). --KoreanQuoter (talk) 11:41, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Speaking of Russian and Korean, I'll show you a YouTube clip of a Russian celebrity in South Korea, Ilya Belyakov. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 12:04, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Interesting, thanks but I understand very little. Re: conjunctions. Not complicated. Let's imagine I'll make an article for "한번 -어/-아 보세요" instead of addressing 한번, suffixes -어/-아 and the verb 보다? I understand your answer re: "-ㄹ 거에요" as well. It's just a pattern a learner needs to know. (I know Japanese much better than Korean and it has a lot of patterns to express this or that and it also has funny uses for loanwords - pseudo-English or Japanese made English 和製英語, Category:Wasei eigo.) --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 13:00, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Let me get this clear. I think making an article like 한번 -어/-아 보세요 would be a bad idea. I understand what you said so far. Other than that, I really want to help you with the Korean entries. But how do I do this? --KoreanQuoter (talk) 13:32, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Well, I think it's a bad idea too, to create "한번 -어/-아 보세요" or "-ㄹ/-을 거에요". I was just trying to make an example. Let's just focus on missing words, which have clear boundaries, grammar and sense, which are lemmas and leave interesting cases for discussions and usage examples. You can find me on Facebook with my real name - Anatoli Titarev (Warning: I am not a supporter of the current Putin's policies and you will see that in my comments). If I have questions about Korean, I won't hesitate to ask. :) We can also try practising Russian/Korean every now and then. --Anatoli T. ^{(обсудить}/^вклад) 13:43, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Facebook request sent. --KoreanQuoter (talk) 14:07, 23 March 2015 (UTC)